e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Details of upcoming UK events, please provide working links if possible.
Ian Thompson
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:44 pm

Alan Walton wrote:These things happen sometimes at hotels, and the offer what I saw was reasonable (free 2 course meal)
That must be an extremely good 2 course meal if it's sufficient to cover the cost of the return 30-40 minute journey you mentioned in your earlier post, never mind any element of compensation for failing to provide the booked room.

We had a hotel renege on a 4NCL hotel booking 3 or 4 years ago, and the compensation deal out team captain agreed then was:

1. Free evening meal (although it turned out to be abysmal, and quite possibly the worst meal I've ever had in a hotel restaurant).
2. Free taxis between the two hotels.
3. Use of meeting rooms at the 4NCL hotel by the team.

There's no way I would have considered that adequate compensation if there had been more than one round per day at the booked hotel, with the resultant loss of use of the bedroom between rounds.

On the positive side though, the replacement hotel was of a generally higher standard hotel than the 4NCL one.

Alan Walton
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:01 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:These things happen sometimes at hotels, and the offer what I saw was reasonable (free 2 course meal)
That must be an extremely good 2 course meal if it's sufficient to cover the cost of the return 30-40 minute journey you mentioned in your earlier post, never mind any element of compensation for failing to provide the booked room.

We had a hotel renege on a 4NCL hotel booking 3 or 4 years ago, and the compensation deal out team captain agreed then was:

1. Free evening meal (although it turned out to be abysmal, and quite possibly the worst meal I've ever had in a hotel restaurant).
2. Free taxis between the two hotels.
3. Use of meeting rooms at the 4NCL hotel by the team.

There's no way I would have considered that adequate compensation if there had been more than one round per day at the booked hotel, with the resultant loss of use of the bedroom between rounds.

On the positive side though, the replacement hotel was of a generally higher standard hotel than the 4NCL one.
I have since noticed from Sean's post that they would have offered the transportation costs as well

Carol Williams
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Carol Williams » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:22 am

Sean – you claim that you knew nothing about this until you saw the post on the Forum, I have to contest this as I have an email from Anthony stating that he has discussed this with you – whether you are prepared to admit this or not is another matter. Due to the total shambles Peter A and Peter D Williams will not be playing – please refund their entry fee. I do feel it is tragic that you are prepared to sacrifice the 5th seed because of this c**k up.

Regarding the in your words “booking errors” This was not a booking error – the booking was made in good faith and confirmed the effect is the same – people who have booked through legitimate means have been inconvenienced and this is unacceptable, you mention free dinner and taxi transfers- neither of which have been offered to us which I find interesting albiet that I don't want free dinners and taxis I just want to stay in the hotel I have booked – it appears that someone is trying to get away with the minimum, I reiterate my point that the cost to us is irrelevant we wanted to play and where quite happy to pay the cost whatever that was – the reason we booked direct was because on previous occasions when we have booked through e2e4 there have been problems therefore we decided to take control – but the question is who is trying to get away with something and why. It is to my mind very simple – we booked a hotel – the reservation was accepted and confirmed in writing and now it has been cancelled – that cannot in any way be my fault or acceptable.

e2e4 need to make sure that they are arranging tournaments with hotels that are reliable and the hotels need to make sure that they are doing the same – anything less is bad publicity for both – until this is resolved we will not enter any e2e4 tournaments - this may not bother you but it should - just because we speak out doet not mean that we are are the only ones that are not happy – you started out very well but something has gone wrong and I believe you need to address this

Sean Hewitt
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:58 am

Carol Williams wrote:Sean – you claim that you knew nothing about this until you saw the post on the Forum, I have to contest this as I have an email from Anthony stating that he has discussed this with you – whether you are prepared to admit this or not is another matter.
You can contest anything you like, but what I have written here is the truth and I do not appreciate you saying otherwise. Irrespective of the problems that you have had with your private hotel, you are out of order accusing me of not telling the truth here, and I will not accept that from you.
Carol Williams wrote:Due to the total shambles Peter A and Peter D Williams will not be playing – please refund their entry fee. I do feel it is tragic that you are prepared to sacrifice the 5th seed because of this c**k up.
Refund processed. It goes without saying that as you booked direct with the hotel I cannot cancel your hotel booking.
Carol Williams wrote:Regarding the in your words “booking errors” This was not a booking error – the booking was made in good faith and confirmed the effect is the same – people who have booked through legitimate means have been inconvenienced and this is unacceptable, you mention free dinner and taxi transfers- neither of which have been offered to us which I find interesting albiet that I don't want free dinners and taxis I just want to stay in the hotel I have booked
You are getting confused. Firstly, I did not use the phrase 'booking errors' so they are not my words. Secondly, your booking was with the hotel direct, not through e2e4 - I do not know on what terms or conditions that booking was made. Thirdly, the free dinner and taki transfers were for people who had booked their room through e2e4. You had not done that, and I reiterate that I do not have any knowledge of your booking as that is a private matter between you and the hotel. No doubt you will have a copy of the terms and conditions under which you made your booking, and will be aware of what the hotel's obligations in that regard are.
Carol Williams wrote: e2e4 need to make sure that they are arranging tournaments with hotels that are reliable and the hotels need to make sure that they are doing the same – anything less is bad publicity for both – until this is resolved we will not enter any e2e4 tournaments - this may not bother you but it should - just because we speak out doet not mean that we are are the only ones that are not happy – you started out very well but something has gone wrong and I believe you need to address this
Thanks for the advice. We will be sure to give it the consideration that it deserves.

I would make three further observations. Firstly, we don't aim to be all things to all men and acknowledge that our chess offering will not suit everybody. Secondly, nobody is forcing anybody who is 'not happy' with our offering to enter any e2e4 event and thirdly, we are getting more and more entrants to our events. Our last event was our largest ever with 192 entrants for example.

Having accused me of lying I think it best that you leave things at this point. I note that you will not be at future e2e4 events. It does sound like that is the best resolution for all concerned.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:40 pm

Hi Sean,

Perhaps going off topic a little, but can not get any of the links to the pgn games from your previous tournaments to work. Can you take a look?

Many thanks,

Krishna

Sean Hewitt
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Krishna Shiatis wrote:Hi Sean,

Perhaps going off topic a little, but can not get any of the links to the pgn games from your previous tournaments to work. Can you take a look?

Many thanks,

Krishna
Hi Krishna - Thanks for the welcome distraction! Something bizarre is happening with pgn downloads on the site with some downloading, and some not. I cannot find out why - and I've tried, believe me. What I will do is place all of the pgn files into zip files that can then be downloaded. It will take me a few days to fix, but I'll get on the case.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:21 pm

sean says-You can contest anything you like, but what I have written here is the truth and I do not appreciate you saying otherwise. Irrespective of the problems that you have had with your private hotel, you are out of order accusing me of not telling the truth here, and I will not accept that from you.

I can confrim that Anthony has wrote to us and said "i have spoken to Mr Hewitt in regards to your rooms" he sent this to us on 27th of June at 10.36 AM yet you claim you knew nothing about it until it was posted on the forum? i think this email needs to be put up on here from Anthony so that every one can see that he did write to us saying this at that time of the day so he must have spoken to you before 10 36 AM on 27 June? i printed off a copy of the email for carol to scan in when she gets time.

I alway thought that when you book a room at a hotel well in advance and have your booking confrimed in writing from the Hotel you would then get the room?

Any thing Carol writes Peter A Williams and myself fully agree with just in case some are wondering if it is just Carol.

Im sure Carol if she has time will give a detailed reply to your answers but my advice is dont bother!
Last edited by Peter D Williams on Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Alan Walton
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Alan Walton » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:40 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:I alway thought that when you back a room at a hotel well in advance and have your booking confrimed in writing from the Hotel you would then get the room?
This would normally be the case, but it looks like the hotel have double booked something like 25+ rooms for that weekend

Therefore the hotel goes through the whole bookings they have got, and likely to come up with the following

1) E2E4 rooms book through the website have priority through signed agreement with Sean

2) Thereafter all "private" booking with confirmations are listed by date confirmed, and in chronological order the fill the rooms accordingly (they may have overriding criteria like disability needs as well)

So it may not actually be the case that you are guaranteed a room even though you have received a written confirmation, as your's could have been one of the latest 25

It is just an unfortunate problem, and with the offer provided they have tried to amicably rectify it

Mike Truran
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:43 pm

I suggest you should lay off Sean. It was your decision to book direct with the hotel rather than e2e4, so your contract is with the hotel and if you want any redress you should take it up with the hotel. Moreover, I fail to see how having a big fat pop at Sean in public is going to help when as far as I can see you couldn't even be bothered to raise it with him first in private. Even if Sean felt inclined to get involved on your behalf in a matter that is between you and the hotel, he is hardly likely to do so after you have accused him publicly of being a liar.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:47 pm

I looks to me like the hotel people may have confused some of the private bookings with the ones booked through e2e4. That would account for most of the (presumed) misunderstandings here (the "I have spoken with Sean" bit that is being focused on). I think Mike's advice above is good, and wrangling over it in public won't help.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:55 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I think Mike's advice above is good, and wrangling over it in public won't help.
I agree this name calling does not help so let us move on please
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Ian Thompson
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:15 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:I alway thought that when you book a room at a hotel well in advance and have your booking confrimed in writing from the Hotel you would then get the room?
Unfortunately not. I think it is fairly common practise amongst hotels to deliberately overbook rooms in the expectation that there will be some cancellations and no-shows. Of course, the hotel takes a risk in doing this because more people might turn up than there are rooms available. When this happens, the hotel is going to have breached its contract with those people it cannot provide a room to, and be liable to compensate them for that.

What you should have done, in my opinion, is to tell the hotel that you were not prepared to accept an alternative hotel and that you required them to honour the original booking, and to follow that up with a demand for compensation if they refused to do so. Your wife has rather shot herself in the foot with her outburst on this forum. I assume the last thing you would now want is for the hotel to give you the room back, so you daren't now do as I suggest in case they do give you the room back.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:44 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:I can confrim that Anthony has wrote to us and said "i have spoken to Mr Hewitt in regards to your rooms" he sent this to us on 27th of June at 10.36 AM yet you claim you knew nothing about it until it was posted on the forum? i think this email needs to be put up on here from Anthony so that every one can see that he did write to us saying this at that time of the day so he must have spoken to you before 10 36 AM on 27 June? i printed off a copy of the email for carol to scan in when she gets time.
If you read my post you will see that I did not say that. Sadly, quoting things that I did not say seems to run in your family.
Carol Williams wrote:Regarding the in your words “booking errors”
However, I think from the following
Peter D Williams wrote:I alway thought that when you book a room at a hotel well in advance and have your booking confrimed in writing from the Hotel you would then get the room?
http://www.pumahotels.co.uk/terms-and-conditions wrote: Cancellation by Puma Hotels' Collection
Very occasionally, we may have to cancel your booking. We will tell you as soon as possible, and offer you an alternative accommodation of the same standard, or higher, or offer a full refund. We regret we cannot pay compensation or any reimbursement of any expenses or costs you may incur as a result of any such cancellation or change.
we can deduce that either reading is not your strong suit, or you choose to ignore inconvenient facts.

Ray Sayers

Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Ray Sayers » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:58 pm

That is a pretty lame condition that hotel has (and I put that mildy, without expletives). I shall certainly look at the small print more closely next time I book a hotel!
I can understand why someone would be very angry indeed at having their hotel room cancelled for this reason. I would be pretty livid. I don't think I would lash out at Sean though - I'm not sure how he, or anyone else could have prevented the hotel doing this. I think the hotel have shot themselves in the foot for the future too!

Sean Hewitt
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Re: e2e4 Buxton Congress : 29 June - 1 July 2012

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:40 pm

Ray Sayers wrote:That is a pretty lame condition that hotel has (and I put that mildy, without expletives). I shall certainly look at the small print more closely next time I book a hotel!
I can understand why someone would be very angry indeed at having their hotel room cancelled for this reason. I would be pretty livid. I don't think I would lash out at Sean though - I'm not sure how he, or anyone else could have prevented the hotel doing this. I think the hotel have shot themselves in the foot for the future too!
Thanks Ray. It's a bad cock up for sure, though I'm equally certain the hotel did not do it deliberately. I reckon most hotels have a condition like this - people just don't realise it.

To be fair, the hotel have ensured that all players who booked through us have accommodation. For those that they have had to move (and you can't fit a quart in a pint pot as my grandmother used to say) they have used a superior quality hotel, contacted them in advance to tell them (giving the chance to cancel if they prefer), will arrange taxis if required, and have thrown in a free evening meal in the restaurant.

We'd all prefer that it hadn't happened but, under the circumstances, I think that's a reasonable compromise. I speak as one of the people bumped out of Buxton into Shrigley!!

PS - I would like to say thank you to all the people who have called, emailed or messaged their support. It is very much appreciated, and makes our efforts feel worthwhile.
Last edited by Sean Hewitt on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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