Norwegian Chess Scene

[John Upham]

I have often thought London has too many chess clubs.

Which ones would you like to disappear?

[Stewart Reuben]

HAPPY NEW YEAR

No specific club to disappear. But let us postulate 50 London clubs. Then 12 might be more efficient, including at least one which had its own premises. Instead few meet more than once a week. New York used to have Manhattan, Marshall, Chess & Checker of NY, Fisher's Studio (nothing to do with Bobby), Rossolimo's, Lisa Lane's, etc. The New York League wasn't a patch on the LL. But Manhattan and Marshall were a considerable force for good chess in the US. Thus my thought that London might be better off with fewer, much bigger clubs.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

No specific club to disappear. But let us postulate 50 London clubs. Then 12 might be more efficient, including at least one which had its own premises. Instead few meet more than once a week. New York used to have Manhattan, Marshall, Chess & Checker of NY, Fisher's Studio (nothing to do with Bobby), Rossolimo's, Lisa Lane's, etc. The New York League wasn't a patch on the LL. But Manhattan and Marshall were a considerable force for good chess in the US. Thus my thought that London might be better off with fewer, much bigger clubs.

It would be interesting to list which clubs have their "own" premises, and how this is defined. Many in the London League play matches at the Golden Lane Community Centre at the Barbican, but some of those do have their own premises (or hire or lease them), albeit sometimes not in Central London.

Richmond and Twickenham Chess Club field a team (might be called just 'Richmond', I can never remember) in the London League, but play their other matches at venues in Teddington (a church hall) and Twickenham (a pub). Several other teams I know of play in pubs (including some in the London League) or church halls or community halls. The other team I am a member of (London Deaf Chess Club) have a room in a rather nice building near Victoria, but that is more a private arrangement (similar to how charities get use of such rooms and/or offices, there are several in the same building).

I think what Stewart is referring to here is where chess clubs actually own the premises, in the same way that Hastings Chess Club own that house they play in (I played there one year in the blitz tournament, and it is well worth a visit to see the memorabilia on display). It sounds like the Oslo chess club had the foresight or fortune to be in a similar situation. How many clubs in the UK own the premises they play in? Edinburgh and/or Glasgow Chess Club maybe, but not many I would have thought.

[William Metcalfe]

I think Hull chess club does it was left a lot of money by a member of the Ross frozen food family
In Darlington 3 local Bridge clubs joined together to buy there own venue each club has 2 days each and Sunday is a day when it is used by all 3 clubs

[Warren Kingston]

We at Lowestoft have two clubs! We are looking at merging very soon. I think Stewart is right in saying larger clubs are stronger, think the weaker players would/could learn more and at a quicker rate with better players at the club. That is why we at Lowestoft need to merge.

O and have a Happy New Year from all at LCC.

P.S Come on Mr Pooley pull your finger out.

[Eric Gardiner]

I think Hull chess club does it was left a lot of money by a member of the Ross frozen food family

Sadly Hull Chess Club does not own the club venue. It is true that the club received a legacy from Bob Ross although I'm not the person to ask for details on how it was spent!

[Alex McFarlane]

How many clubs in the UK own the premises they play in? Edinburgh and/or Glasgow Chess Club maybe, but not many I would have thought.

Edinburgh CC has its own premises, recently visited by ECU President Danailov and former world champion Topalov.
Glasgow CC is moribund though I believe its equipment still resides in the attic of a former member.
Dundee CC had its own premises for a number of years but could not generate enough income to maintain them.

[Stewart Reuben]

By contrast there are three chess clubs in New Zealand which own their own premises.
Manhattan Chess Club always rented. It was great when I lived there in the 1960s.
The Gambit and the En Passant were around when I was a youngster. I believe the last place in London was Ali Amin's Chequers in Hampstead.

Hastings Council bought a site and the BCF presented a bid for Heritage Lottery money for a national chess centre. Then, after work had been done, the lottery people decided chess wasn't eligible for funding. Sting considered putting in £250,000.

But I was making the point that fewer, larger clubs might be better than the huge number(about 2000) of small ones we have in Britain. I have no doubt an argument can be made, the more the merrier.

[Alex Holowczak]

But I was making the point that fewer, larger clubs might be better than the huge number(about 2000) of small ones we have in Britain. I have no doubt an argument can be made, the more the merrier.

There is at least one small club in Birmingham where the players who play in it only play because, if they don't, the club won't be able to field the teams. So they play out of loyalty to one another. If they merged with another club, I'm sure those players who play out of loyalty would stop playing altogether.

This notwithstanding, I think the idea of having fewer, larger clubs, is an interesting one.

[Richard Bates]

I think to have a thriving league chess scene I think the more clubs the better. Increasingly we see situations where the numbers are being made up by second and third teams which can't be a good thing for a "league as competition". Of course for many league chess is just the only vehicle they have to play competitive chess - beyond avoiding relegation the "team" doesn't 'matter' that much. In addition for many their only contact with their club is playing in league matches.

In a "few clubs, large clubs" model, (local) league chess is unlikely to thrive. But this is easily replaced with viable intra club competitions, and there is something very appealing about the idea of clubs open all hours of the day and all hours of the week, where people can just pop in sure of finding somebody of similar ability to play with.

[Alex Holowczak]

In a "few clubs, large clubs" model, (local) league chess is unlikely to thrive. But this is easily replaced with viable intra club competitions, and there is something very appealing about the idea of clubs open all hours of the day and all hours of the week, where people can just pop in sure of finding somebody of similar ability to play with.

You'd need something a bit like CCF, I think.

[Warren Kingston]

I think to have a thriving league chess scene I think the more clubs the better. Increasingly we see situations where the numbers are being made up by second and third teams which can't be a good thing for a "league as competition". Of course for many league chess is just the only vehicle they have to play competitive chess - beyond avoiding relegation the "team" doesn't 'matter' that much. In addition for many their only contact with their club is playing in league matches.

In a "few clubs, large clubs" model, (local) league chess is unlikely to thrive. But this is easily replaced with viable intra club competitions, and there is something very appealing about the idea of clubs open all hours of the day and all hours of the week, where people can just pop in sure of finding somebody of similar ability to play with.

I think the "open all hours" thought is a good one. Maybe with food and drink available as well.

[Arshad Ali]

I think to have a thriving league chess scene I think the more clubs the better. Increasingly we see situations where the numbers are being made up by second and third teams which can't be a good thing for a "league as competition". Of course for many league chess is just the only vehicle they have to play competitive chess - beyond avoiding relegation the "team" doesn't 'matter' that much. In addition for many their only contact with their club is playing in league matches.

In a "few clubs, large clubs" model, (local) league chess is unlikely to thrive. But this is easily replaced with viable intra club competitions, and there is something very appealing about the idea of clubs open all hours of the day and all hours of the week, where people can just pop in sure of finding somebody of similar ability to play with.

I think the "open all hours" thought is a good one. Maybe with food and drink available as well.

The chess club I've seen in Buenos Aires has not one but two places where you can buy food and drink. Buenos Aires has around 13m people but again only has (as far as I know) one club, or at least one main club. They're housed in a 3-storey building and when a tourney is taking place they have two bookstalls. Three or four times a week a youth tournament is taking place, in addition to all the other events.

The Marshall in NYC also owns the building it inhabits and again is open at all hours.

[Paolo Casaschi]

HAPPY NEW YEAR

No specific club to disappear. But let us postulate 50 London clubs. Then 12 might be more efficient, including at least one which had its own premises. Instead few meet more than once a week. New York used to have Manhattan, Marshall, Chess & Checker of NY, Fisher's Studio (nothing to do with Bobby), Rossolimo's, Lisa Lane's, etc. The New York League wasn't a patch on the LL. But Manhattan and Marshall were a considerable force for good chess in the US. Thus my thought that London might be better off with fewer, much bigger clubs.

I dont think this would be enough. I noticed this about the Marshall chess club in NY: the membership is $325 per year (about 200 pounds).
http://www.marshallchessclub.org/membership
In order to support own premises and constant activities, I believe you need people keen on paying for it. I'm not sure about the various London chess clubs, but I doubt any tries to address this kind of profile of customer.

[Gordon Cadden]

The Edinburgh Chess Club took possession of a Georgian House at 1 Alva Street, in 1822. No problems with landlords, because they own the premises.
The London Chess Club met in rooms above Tom's Coffee House, Cornhill, 1829 - 38. Their Minute Book records opening hours Monday to Saturday, from 10.00 am to midnight. They did not own the premises, but clearly had exclusive use of their rooms. Servants would have been available to set up the chess pieces, and provide refreshments.