Mobile Phone problems at local league level.

[Anthony Taglione]

Out of curiosity, what are the penalties for being caught cheating? Have there, for example, been cases of lifetime bans from competitive chess?

[Ian Kingston]

I wonder; is it ok for me to use a laptop with a wireless connection whilst I am playing my game to receive important emails, and have a chat with my friends - not about my game, of course... actually I don't mean a laptop, that would be daft - I meant a Blackberry... or would an iPhone be acceptable?

All fine questions, Adam. Maybe that's worth a whole thread to itself?

Actually, I think I can stop it dead in one post. Article 12.3b says 'Without the permission of the arbiter a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue...' (my italics). So no laptops, netbooks, iPhones...

[LozCooper]

Clearly this wouldn't work in a FIDE event because firstly they would have been defaulted at the start time

If you are indeed referring to a FIDE event such as an Olympiad, then you are of course correct. In an ordinary FIDE rated tournament, organisers remain free to set their own default time. As previously discussed on this Forum, the default time for standardplay events in England is 30 minutes unless an alternative is specified in the regulations for the particular event.

David, yes I'm aware of this. My point was that at a local level it's much easier for players and captains not to insist on rules being carried out to the letter when there's a genuine reason.

[Roger de Coverly]

This extreme concern about cheating is troubling. Has the chess world become so rife with people attempting to cheat by reading out a position over the phone and awaiting some returned analysis that it warrants a witch-hunt against responsible use of the telephone?

No but it's rife with players, grandmasters even, who will make accusations on dubious or spurious grounds. For a flavour of these here are some threads or reports from the last couple of years.

http://www.chessdom.com/news/anna-rudolf

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/200 ... eplies.htm

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... *&start=15



(Two of the named players in the links were the accused, the third was the accuser)

I would say that it's best practice not to leave the board much, if at all, whilst playing.

[Alan Walton]

The problem is that different countries apply the FIDE rules in totally different ways

You rarely see this happen in other sports, the rules of football are the same whichever level you are playing either, be it Premiership or Sunday League

The Laws of Chess, which include electronic devices should be applicable across the board (pardon the pun)

The only differences that league and associations can apply, is time controls and default time (late arrival)

This would avoid confusion, and maybe ease organisation

[Mike Truran]

Perhaps we should all have catheters fitted or potties provided. While we're at it, we should have the pieces, boards, tables and chairs sound proofed and have players' mouths sellotaped (hang on, that would make draw offers difficult). Players could certainly be fitted with those clever things they have in American films that buzz when criminals go out of bounds (oops, sorry - much too noisy, and they could probably be fitted with miniature transmitters for cheating).

It's a minefield out there.

[Anthony Taglione]

Thanks for those links, Roger. They made for amusing, if tragic, reading. I think those players would have benefited from having aggressive managers. I also think that the one who alleged cheating via lip-gloss should have been removed from the venue.

In essence, however, they're little different to the shenanigans of Fischer during the Spassky match.

[David Sedgwick]

Out of curiosity, what are the penalties for being caught cheating? Have there, for example, been cases of lifetime bans from competitive chess?

There have been instances of players being banned for a period of time (not life), but I can't recall any details.

An International Arbiter who was found to have deliberately falsified tournament results was suspended for two years. On his return he was placed permanently in Category D, the lowest category in a recently introduced classification system. In essence the effect of this is that he can never again be the Chief or Deputy Arbiter of an official World or Continental Championship.

[Anthony Taglione]

Thanks, David.

Regarding the thrust of this whole thread, though, there are clearly strong opinions on each side. The aspect of cheating does need to be addressed but, equally, any of us can think of perfectly normal reasons for anyone wanting to make a short, discrete phone call. The banning of phones at the club level just seems to be a tad draconian. Even at tournament or international level there really ought to be some wiggle-room built into the laws.

Maybe each player could be permitted one or two calls per game, each lasting no longer than 30 seconds and only permissible under the supervision of someone capable of acting as an arbiter. All a little messy, though. Can anyone think of some reasonable and workable middle-ground, acceptable to all?

[LozCooper]

I think anyone who has a genuine need to have a phone switched on or is expecting to receive an important call needs to make the opponent and captain/arbiter etc aware of this and they either agree to it or they don't. In my case last night I think it would have been acceptable for example. If I was in an international event then I'd have to accept that I'm risking being defaulted by having a phone with me if it makes any sound whilst the game is in progress.

[Alex Holowczak]

In my case last night I think it would have been acceptable for example. If I was in an international event then I'd have to accept that I'm risking being defaulted by having a phone with me if it makes any sound whilst the game is in progress.

But in an international event, you wouldn't have had to receive a phone call to be told they were late; they'd have been defaulted anyway!

[IM Jack Rudd]

In my case last night I think it would have been acceptable for example. If I was in an international event then I'd have to accept that I'm risking being defaulted by having a phone with me if it makes any sound whilst the game is in progress.

But in an international event, you wouldn't have had to receive a phone call to be told they were late; they'd have been defaulted anyway!

Only in ones with zero default time (there are plenty of international events that do not).

[Rob Thompson]

As a match captain, i have to start our matches at 7 sharp, or the building will shut before we have finished. If, however, we are a player short, i usually let the opposing captain know that i am leaving my phone on, so that the missing player can contact me if necessary. This has never (so far) been a problem. The phone is left on vibrate, so a minimum level of disturbance is caused.

[Eoin Devane]

Carl, how about a poll?

I've created your poll for you (http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1509). Let me know if there are any reasonable potential punishments that anyone feels I've missed out.

[Scott Freeman]

Have just read the last 3 pages of this thread. Of course the perfect solution is that everyone is searched by SIA trained staff before enterning the playing hall to make sure they have nothing electronic with them. They are then chained to their chair in the playing hall until the conclusion of the game so that they cannot leave the room for any reason. So the game becomes a marathon battle not only of mind, but also of strong bladder and the ability to ignore the developing pangs of thirst and hunger..........

As I keep saying, I do understand both views but I don't believe it is impossible for players to have their phones off. If you go on an airoplane, you can't use your phone once on the plane - and of course the arguments have been well discussed in this thread about theatres, football matches, cricket matches (in that regard see a posting I made on the mobile phone survey thread page), etc. I can see that whatever rule you have, it is going to be considered inappropriate for various levels of chess but as Kevin Thurlow points out, it gets confusing if you have different rules for one event as compared to another.