French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

[Roger de Coverly]

It would be safe I guess to take it that a generic scam would have basic elements of - a remote player analyses a move with Fritz/Rybka and then transmits it to the player. It shouldnt however be assumed that a mobile phone will be involved; a specially designed bluetooth watch would equally suffice worn by either the player or an accomplice.

I'm not even sure you need to invoke blue-teeth. An on site spectator notes a critical position and analyses it with <program of the month>. Communicates the suggestions to the player in some manner.

The communication side doesn't have to be computer related, the famous blueberry yoghurt/ quails in aspic code, alleged jokingly we hope, by Ray Keene in Baguio is a pre-computer example.

[Stewart Reuben]

Sean Hewitt >Going further (and some of you will love this) there is a one way system. If a player leaves the playing venue (which includes toilets and a smoking area) they are not allowed back in to the playing venue.<

I am puzzled at this comment. The Laws of Chess are quite specific. Players are NOT allowed to leave the playing venue without permission from the arbiter. That is defined in the Laws. So anybody leaving the venue without permission should always automatically be forfeited. Thus such a person would no longer be a player.

Stewart Reuben

[Carl Hibbard]

This may be a further reason why the Monroi system hasn't proved too popular.

I believe they also have some sort of copyright on the publication of the games that they record as well which cannot be helping

Can anyone confirm?

[Roger de Coverly]

I believe they also have some sort of copyright on the publication of the games that they record as well which cannot be helping

Their terms and conditions can be read as containing some form of implied copyright. That doesn't mean it has any legal standing but you avoid disputes but not using Monrois.

(edit) link to Monroi conditions http://monroi.com/terms-of-use.html

[Stewart Reuben]

The Monroi device is an excellent system, excellently executed. But you could use a mobile phone app to record your moves. But a great deal of work went into ensuring security. e.g. while the system is in record mode, it is not possible to access other material. The system is guarded against being hacked into - although I doubt that could ever be made 100% secure.
The problem is that the device is expensive. If I remember correctly about £200 per unit. The development costs were high. In most parts of the world there is a culture of presenting all games from an international tournament in an electronic form. Thus Gibraltar has DGT boards for the top games, a limited number of Monroi for those prepared to use them and keying in the remainder. For many International events in the US there is no culture of the organisers recording games and thus a personal Monroi is more desirable. The market for them there is more robust.

In my opinion the company used the wrong business plan trying to make the transmission of the scores copyright to their company. It doesn't work and they would have done better to focus on the prime purpose. I did discuss this with them in the early days.

Stewart Reuben

[Jonathan Bryant]

... thus a personal Monroi is more desirable.

Would it not be possible for somebody to knock something up that looks like a Monroi recording device but actually contains an engine too? Even for Monrois supplied by organisers it seems obvious to me - as a former working magician - that switching in a fake would be a simple matter.

At a time when computer cheating is on the rise, allowing the use of electronic recording devices strikes me as insanity.

[Stewart Reuben]

Jonathan you may be right. But remember the computer screen is in full view of the arbiter at all times.
The possibility of cheating by electronic means is growing exponentiallly. The main defence is that it is not financially lucrative in chess.
The idea of producing just one machine that looks just liker a Monroi device would probably be probitively expensive.

Stewart Reuben

[IM Jack Rudd]

This may be a further reason why the Monroi system hasn't proved too popular.

I believe they also have some sort of copyright on the publication of the games that they record as well which cannot be helping

Can anyone confirm?

They don't - there is no copyright on a chess game.

[Gareth Harley-Yeo]

But you could use a mobile phone app to record your moves.

Is there such an app out there?

[Roger de Coverly]

Is there such an app out there?

As a "for example"

http://www.androlib.com/android.applica ... s-Emi.aspx
from which

The engine plays at various levels (including random, against itself in auto-play, or free-play, where the game can be used as a "magnetic chessboard"). The user can play either side and, independently, view the board from the perspective of white or black.

So if you can use the phone as a portable set, it should also work as a move recorder. I don't know that anyone, even the French, have yet integrated move input with SMS or similar transmissions.

You've got the obvious problems of consulting engines or third parties, but the building blocks for a Monroi-a-like are in place. Ensuring fair and legal play now looks to be the bigger challenge.

[Alex Holowczak]

Is there such an app out there?

As a "for example"

http://www.androlib.com/android.applica ... s-Emi.aspx
from which

The engine plays at various levels (including random, against itself in auto-play, or free-play, where the game can be used as a "magnetic chessboard"). The user can play either side and, independently, view the board from the perspective of white or black.

So if you can use the phone as a portable set, it should also work as a move recorder. I don't know that anyone, even the French, have yet integrated move input with SMS or similar transmissions.

You've got the obvious problems of consulting engines or third parties, but the building blocks for a Monroi-a-like are in place. Ensuring fair and legal play now looks to be the bigger challenge.

I can confirm that that App, in "Free" mode lets you basically input the moves and have a record of the game. I don't think you can save it as a permanent thing though.

[E Michael White]

The Monroi device is an excellent system, excellently executed. But you could use a mobile phone app to record your moves. But a great deal of work went into ensuring security.......

My Norton scanner indicates that the Monroi website contains security threats !

[Jonathan Bryant]

The possibility of cheating by electronic means is growing exponentiallly.

Funnily enough I'd written almost exactly that sentence only this morning when writing an article for the blog.

Think you're right about the professional game's best defence. I was thinking more about club chess though. It seems to me there's more potential incentive to cheat in the amateur game (non-financial) and more opportunity to get away with it because most of us - certainly me - wouldn't know what a real monroi looked like in the first place so couldn't spot a fake.


I know it's not easy for most of us to construct a fake monroi, but I suspect it could be fairly straightforward for those with the right skills. Anyway, doesn't it strike you as odd that mobile phones are banned but monroi devices are OK?

[Roger de Coverly]

Anyway, doesn't it strike you as odd that mobile phones are banned but monroi devices are OK?

Could it be that mobile phone companies don't pay any money to FIDE? I don't think Monroi got FIDE permission and a Laws of Chess change without money changing hands. It was above board, payment for endorsement -a similar deal to digital clock suppliers.

[Jonathan Bryant]

Anyway, doesn't it strike you as odd that mobile phones are banned but monroi devices are OK?

Could it be that mobile phone companies don't pay any money to FIDE?

I must admit the thought had occurred to me.