CJ Banned?

[Paul McKeown]

I have read the bible and nowhere does it say that David had a homosexual relationship with Jonathan (son of king Saul). It does say that David loved Jonathan but as a brother.

You either
a) haven't read the Bible at all in spite of your claim, or
b) skipped right past anything at all to do with David and Jonathan, or
c) don't read very well, or
d) read it with a mind already made up.

Your statement is risible. David was bisexual. Get over it.

Give me chapter and verse.

Well, I did happen some years back to translate a book from Dutch into English about homosexuality in the Bible, so if you really want to discuss this with me, be prepared to have your obviously entrenched prejudices challenged. The book was written by a Dutch Catholic, a friend of a friend, under a penname (he was scared of prejudice), although I'm neither Dutch, Catholic or homosexual, I was happy to stick my neck out, so my name is given openly as the translator. Biblical quotes are generally given according to the NIV or the AV, so should be acceptable to non-Catholics. In a small number of places, the original Koine or Hebrew is examined, or translations in other languages are considered, for example those by Luther into German.

Anyway, I've run upstairs and a running off a paper copy, I will deal with your query after Wallander has ended.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

No one. Chess was not invented until the 6th Century, and then in North West India.

Er, I knew that! (Clearly people had too much time on their hands in the old days, and then chess got invented, which fixed that, at least until the TV and then the internet came along). No Wallander for me. Just Law and Order (US version). Sounds like a particularly gruesome episode tonight.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Are there any positions on the ECF board currently.

Not at the moment. Director of Junior Chess and Director of Marketing will open up in October. (Well, all of the posts will be open to election, but those are the two where the incumbent is known to be standing down.)

[matt_ward]

Could I oppose myself stand forward in applying for Director of Junior Chess.

I would also like to help at events.

Things like 4ncls.

[PaulTalbot]

Well, I did happen some years back to translate a book from Dutch into English about homosexuality in the Bible, so if you really want to discuss this with me, be prepared to have your obviously entrenched prejudices challenged. The book was written by a Dutch Catholic, a friend of a friend, under a penname (he was scared of prejudice), although I'm neither Dutch, Catholic or homosexual, I was happy to stick my neck out, so my name is given openly as the translator. Biblical quotes are generally given according to the NIV or the AV, so should be acceptable to non-Catholics. In a small number of places, the original Koine or Hebrew is examined, or translations in other languages are considered, for example those by Luther into German.

Anyway, I've run upstairs and a running off a paper copy, I will deal with your query after Wallander has ended.[/quote]

Just because you can speak Dutch it does not mean you are theologically sound. I will happily have this discussion with you but I might suggest that a chess forum is not the place so please email me [email protected]

[Kirk Gornall]

The newspapers already have published articles about this

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/au ... hts-tshirt

The president of the English Chess Federation says he was barred from presenting prizes at the British chess championships in Sheffield because he was wearing a gay rights T-shirt.

CJ de Mooi, an actor and a regular on the BBC quiz show Eggheads, said he was left "shaking with fury" over objections to the shirt, which bore the slogan "Some people are gay, get over it", used by gay rights group Stonewall.

De Mooi said he was approached by the championship arbiter, Lara Barnes, prior to the awards ceremony and urged to reconsider his outfit. "They then suggested that it might be better if I just presented prizes to the adults," he said. "I refused. I was either going to present all the prizes or none at all."

Barnes denied asking de Mooi to change his shirt, saying she had merely expressed reservations. "I didn't think that promoting gay rights, which I thoroughly agree with, while presenting prizes to junior chess players was an appropriate thing," she said. "Usually prize-givers for a national event would wear a suit and tie."

De Mooi said he had worn the T-shirt throughout the event without complaints. "None of the parents, none of the kids, said anything to me that wasn't completely positive. Quite a few of them said, 'we love the T-shirt, well done for wearing it'."

Laura Doughty, deputy chief executive of Stonewall UK, said she was puzzled by the furore. "We think our T-shirts are lovely and don't see why anyone would object to anyone wearing one, least of all chess players."

Leonard Barden, the Guardian's chess correspondent, said: "There has never been a dress code before. It's not something that happens in chess, it's supposed to be non-discriminatory."

De Mooi, who has been president of the English Chess Federation for the past two years, said he was angered and baffled: "I was elected president in the first place because English chess was in the absolute doldrums. As a very prominent member of the chess committee has said, I was elected because I do things differently."

Barnes praised de Mooi's efforts to promote chess but said it was improper to mix the game with gay rights: "I've every sympathy with his cause, but I didn't think it was appropriate to have the sentiment on the T-shirt in every photograph with junior chess players – under-10s, under-12s and under-14s – promoting a particular sexuality."

[matt_ward]

I could of guessed it was Lara Barnes he was not promoting "Gay Rights" were is Lara Barrnes evidence to suggest this someone help me!

Matt.

[Paul Cooksey]

Barnes denied asking de Mooi to change his shirt, saying she had merely expressed reservations. "I didn't think that promoting gay rights, which I thoroughly agree with, while presenting prizes to junior chess players was an appropriate thing," she said.

Leading with her chin, since as we are all now aware, the slogan was created for an anti-bullying campaign, and material with the slogan distributed to all secondary schools.

I agreed with the sentiment that we should try to view it as an error of judgement in difficult circumstances and put it behind us. I hope nothing is said that makes anyone's position untenable.

[matt_ward]

This is all caused because of one Chief Arbiter, but what right does Lara Barnes have to tell the president to leave she is not in charge of the congress should it not be the congress manager, I thought Lara was a fund raiser.

[Paul McKeown]

Just because you can speak Dutch it does not mean you are theologically sound. I will happily have this discussion with you but I might suggest that a chess forum is not the place so please email me [email protected]

Anyway, regarding David and Jonathan, just to start:
I Sam 20 41 (NIV) Then they kissed each other and wept together...
II Sam 1, 26 (NIV) ... you were very dear to me, Your love was more wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.

If I can be bothered (I understand you don't want to understand and so I probably couldn't be bothered, your loss), I might dig out the bits about them getting naked together or various other bits. I understand all too well the self styled "theologically sound" and loathe them and their casting of stones and am happy to see them marginalised in our society. I have no desire to discuss any of this offline with you, whatsoever.

[Nick Thomas]

This is all caused because of one Chief Arbiter, but what right does Lara Barnes have to tell the president to leave she is not in charge of the congress should it not be the congress manager, I thought Lara was a fund raiser.

She didn't tell him to leave.

[Paul Cooksey]

I have no desire to discuss any of this offline with you, whatsoever.

Not even if I paid you?

[matt_ward]

Does any agree with Lara that CJ was trying to promote, I think she mis- understood his motifs for wearing the T- Shirt.

Clearly the pappers will be abrupt and over- exaggerate the events. I hope in time that it will calm down; that would be off interest for the game of chess.

Nick I think you'll find she did, because he made the decision he wanted to give out all the prizes and she suggested he gave them out to adults only , I assume she's homophobic after all she is the only one to have a inferior complex about this.

Matt.

[Andrew Camp]

Nick I think you'll find she did, bevause he made the decision he wanted to give out all the prizes and she suggested he gave them out to adults only , I assume she's homophobic after all she is the only one to have a inferior complex about this.

Matt.

Which part of this equates to 'asking him to leave'?

[Paul McKeown]

I have no desire to discuss any of this offline with you, whatsoever.

Not even if I paid you?

That would be different, of course, there would be some point to the exercise.

P.S. I have amended my previous post to make it a little less intemperate.

P.P.S. I have missed most of Wallander due to this farago. Will have to use catch up and pour out some more malt.