Cheating in chess

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Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Sep 01, 2025 6:25 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:
Mon Sep 01, 2025 5:23 pm
He must be the highest rated IM ever!
Not at the moment because he's been stripped of his rating. Perhaps he will be when/if he resumes playing once his ban is over.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Sep 01, 2025 8:06 pm

Can't remember the exact details, but I think the highest ever "genuine" IM rating is pretty high.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Sep 02, 2025 6:43 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Aug 09, 2025 11:30 pm
Joey Stewart wrote:
Sat Aug 09, 2025 10:59 pm
It seems so random to pick on a mid level player that literally no one in the world has every heard of until this story
He is close to IM standard. If this were in England it would be very big news.

edit : Suppose this were Jonathan Rogers ( of this parish, a name chosen solely because he fits the profile of the player under discussion ) and over the course of a few disastrous months he lost constantly against 1800 opposition and his rating fell by 400 points. Would we be seeing the same comments that these things can happen and we shouldn't be too quick to assume that there was more to this than met the eye?
I just saw this, to my amusement! I have no idea of the profile of this other player, but I take mine to be someone whose rating is consistently over 2300 for some thirty years, whilst playing rather infrequently. It is true that I cannot imagine suddenly losing 400 points in a few months, even if I did start to play much more frequently; or at least, I think that this could only happen due to a health crisis and in such a case I would stop playing (and/or my family would stop me from playing) far before I had lost as many as 400 points.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 07, 2025 6:47 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Tue Sep 02, 2025 6:43 pm
It is true that I cannot imagine suddenly losing 400 points in a few months
The late David Parr dropped from 177 in 1994 to 147 in 2003, but I think he had been as high as 220 in the later 1970s.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Sep 07, 2025 6:51 pm

I remember David Parr. At his best he was a very fine player. No idea why he dropped so many points; am I right in thinking he was an expert in that dubious body of 'knowledge' called the occult?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Sep 07, 2025 8:13 pm

ISTR he once withdrew from a tournament with some excuse like "I am losing to my opponents because they are too weak" or similar :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Sep 07, 2025 10:08 pm

"The late David Parr dropped from 177 in 1994 to 147 in 2003, but I think he had been as high as 220 in the later 1970s."

I don't think he lost points through cheating, but he had some sort of issues. At one tournament, he was sharing accommodation with another good player (whom I won't identify), and after DP lost a game, he never spoke another word to his colleague for the rest of the tournament.

DP also apparently played in an event where his father (Frank) was playing and just refused to acknowledge his presence at all. Frank was always a very pleasant opponent, but it is interesting that he had three children and I think one went to live in South Africa and two went to Australia/New Zealand.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:09 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Sep 07, 2025 6:47 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Tue Sep 02, 2025 6:43 pm
It is true that I cannot imagine suddenly losing 400 points in a few months
The late David Parr dropped from 177 in 1994 to 147 in 2003, but I think he had been as high as 220 in the later 1970s.
Surprising though that it is, it is a decline over a long period of time. Nick was talking about a player who packed that sort of decline into a few months, a space of time so short that it is quite something even to play enough games to be able to lose so many points, let alone to carry on losing them day after day.

Ronnie Burton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ronnie Burton » Sun Sep 07, 2025 11:14 pm

David was not a cheat. He was a chain smoker and could smoke 60 cigs in a evening

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Jon Mahony
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jon Mahony » Mon Sep 08, 2025 7:19 am

Chess games.com has David beating Keene in 1962, assuming it's the same guy. The name rings a bell with me to be honest, anyone got a pic of him? I doubt I was ever good enough to play him, but as a former smoker, it's possible I stood in "Smokers corner" with him at tournaments.
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Jon D'Souza-Eva
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Mon Sep 08, 2025 11:59 am

Jon Mahony wrote:
Mon Sep 08, 2025 7:19 am
anyone got a pic of him?
DavidParr.jpg
DavidParr.jpg (219.91 KiB) Viewed 3415 times
An undated picture of David Parr (13th September 1944 – 13th August 2003) from ancestry. His father, Frank Carr (17th December 1918 – 28th December 2003), was a familiar face on the UK chess scene for many decades.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Sep 08, 2025 5:02 pm

Yes, that is he. The "Wolverhampton Express and Star" reports (1/9/1965) that 21-year-old David Parr had lost his game at Eastbourne on Saturday, walked out of the venue and disappeared. A search had been going on ever since. Baruch Wood told the newspaper that he had a telephone call from David's mother five days later, saying her son had contacted her and had withdrawn from the tournament. BHW added, "It is a happy ending."

Paul Habershon
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Habershon » Mon Sep 08, 2025 6:02 pm

In the 13-round U-18 Championship at Bath in 1963 David Parr started with a respectable 5.5/8 but then lost his last five games, including one against the eventual winner, Peter Jamieson, as late as Round 10. I lost to Jamieson in Round 1 and beat Parr in a distinctly underwhelming last round game (doubt if he was really trying), but at least he finished the tournament. Hartston was =2nd, beating Andrew Whiteley in the last round, denying him the chance to catch Jamieson.
Details to be found by scrolling down this link, with thanks to John Saunders.
https://www.saund.co.uk/britbase/pgn/19 ... iewer.html
Last edited by Paul Habershon on Mon Sep 08, 2025 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 08, 2025 7:09 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Mon Sep 08, 2025 6:02 pm



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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Sep 08, 2025 7:17 pm

Ecf ratings were really badly deflated in 2003 - someone previously in the high 170s dropping into high 140s doesn't seem completely unbelievable (albeit convenient for entering majors instead of opens)
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