How Many Times ?

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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John Upham
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How Many Times ?

Post by John Upham » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:38 pm

How many times may a Division Four South team default all or most of its Sunday boards (without prior notice) before 4NCL takes exception to this behavior ?

John
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Michael Farthing
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Michael Farthing » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:51 pm

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind - the answer is blowin' in the wind.

[Couldn't resist]

Roger Lancaster
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:49 pm

John Upham wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:38 pm
How many times may a Division Four South team default all or most of its Sunday boards (without prior notice) before 4NCL takes exception to this behavior ?
John
Well, if you're seriously asking the question, I'd say twice. There are some 'no fault' situations such as a car, carrying multiple team members, becoming involved in an accident en route to the venue. But it becomes a bit of a stretch if this happens more than once to the same team.

Nick Grey
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 am

Perhaps they knew how noisy it was going to be in that small room? 12 boards but 4 empty.
The arbiters did well to relocate us once some other boards had finished. It was nice to eat lunch & have a coffee.
As it was a junior team I'm not sure how the manager did not inform the control team.
Isn't it 100 pounds a board? Ouch. But very frustrating for the opponents (not only time but expenses).
Our teams have been excellent at avoiding defaults. Excellent managers.
Anyway John it was a pleasure to see you again on Saturday. Hopefully we get a chance to play you in the next weekend.

Ian Thompson
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:52 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 am
As it was a junior team I'm not sure how the manager did not inform the control team.
They're one of a number of "junior" teams who stretch the definition of junior somewhat. Only 3 of their 9 registered players are juniors. All 3 players who failed to turn up are over 50. The two who did play were both juniors.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:10 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 am
Isn't it 100 pounds a board? Ouch.
In a word, no. See Rule 11: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1819_rules.htm#11

John Upham
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by John Upham » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:21 am

One thing I would like to make clear is that :

Camberley Chess Club has nothing whatsoever to do with Camberley Juniors.

The correct name for this 4NCL team should be Sandhurst Chess Club.

A disaffected ex-member of Camberley Chess Club (who resigned in January of 2006) renamed Sandhurst to Camberley Juniors when they forgot to renew an Internet domain which was taken over and populated with inappropriate content. :shock:

Camberley Chess Club has been dealing with the consequences ever since.

(We have our own junior chess club with the same name).
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:48 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:21 am
One thing I would like to make clear is that :

Camberley Chess Club has nothing whatsoever to do with Camberley Juniors.

The correct name for this 4NCL team should be Sandhurst Chess Club.

A disaffected ex-member of Camberley Chess Club (who resigned in January of 2006) renamed Sandhurst to Camberley Juniors when they forgot to renew an Internet domain which was taken over and populated with inappropriate content. :shock:

Camberley Chess Club has been dealing with the consequences ever since.

(We have our own junior chess club with the same name).
I resisted the temptation to comment on this earlier because, first, there are two sides to most arguments and it seemed sensible to await any response from those complained about and, secondly, it's a local dispute and I'm some distance away. But, if the situation is as described, and a trawl through names on the ECF grading database suggests it might well be, it seems to me a highly undesirable state of affairs that club A can bring club B into disrepute by usurping its name and then behaving irresponsibly. I'd suggest that the right people to complain to are the 4NCL management.

Nick Grey
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:14 pm

In terms of the original post. Lets see if they will be playing in round five. I think it was difficult for the Barnet Knights at the time. It also was next to the band so the noise was not coming from the players. Only 8 boards I think needed to be moved to another room.

Your subsequent post I knew nothing about. A bit to far away from my club.

On your issue with content on internet it is unfortunate. We appreciate the work you do & it was nice to see you playing chess with your team mates. You are an expert on websites & I like your set ups on LMS.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:14 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:14 pm
I think it was difficult for the Barnet Knights at the time. I
It's Barnet Knights who are the optional team. Barnet Knights 5 have yet to appear, whilst Knights 4 have only played 2 matches.

With a bit of arm twisting, perhaps it would be possible to have a 4NCL "house" team, who only appear when there's an odd number of teams.

David Williams
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by David Williams » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:39 am

John Upham wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:21 am
Camberley Chess Club has nothing whatsoever to do with Camberley Juniors.
Maybe they should call themselves Spirit of Camberley Juniors.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:55 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:14 pm
It's Barnet Knights who are the optional team. Barnet Knights 5 have yet to appear, whilst Knights 4 have only played 2 matches.

With a bit of arm twisting, perhaps it would be possible to have a 4NCL "house" team, who only appear when there's an odd number of teams.
I think we've had this conversation on another thread with the consensus being that teams who withdrew in good time were significantly less reprehensible than those who didn't but turned up with absent players, particularly in cases of more than one defaulted board.

Neil Graham
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:10 pm

As I understand it Camberley Juniors have now withdrawn from the 4NCL altogether. There is no point in entering the League if you can't take your responsibilities seriously - this applies equally to the lower divisions as it does to Division One.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: How Many Times ?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:56 pm

The attention of all teams has now formally been drawn to 4NCL rule 11.9, reading as follows:

If a Division 3 North or a Division 4 South team defaults an entire match for whatever reason it will:
a) not incur a fine so long as the intention to default the match is notified to the Records Secretary no later than one week before the team list submission deadline: or
b) incur a fine of £50 in all other circumstances unless a successful appeal has been made. In all instances where a Division 3 North or Division 4 South team defaults a match other teams will be re-paired as necessary.

That means, unless I misunderstand this rule, that any team deciding against taking part in rounds 5 and/or 6 needs to announce that intention by midnight tonight to be sure of avoiding financial penalty. I take the rule to mean that the penalty is £50 per match, not £50 per weekend.

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