State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

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MartinCarpenter
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:36 pm

I think most of the people in stuff like the Marathon des Sables find it fun :) I don't think Jasmin Paris got anything for winning the Spine race in January.
(Money that is, she definitely made a few points!).

Never really much money in fell running either coming or going. Quite a few newer not quite fell races with chunky entry fees.

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Allan Hodgkinson
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Allan Hodgkinson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:17 pm

Do any players/ commentators make any significant money from commentating, coaching, selling of dvds/online courses? Simon Williams, for example, seems to have a high profile.

Reg Clucas
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Reg Clucas » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:43 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Never really much money in fell running either coming or going.
You're not kidding. After a good run at Langdale one year I got a fiver in a plain brown envelope. This was a bit naughty, as it was in the days when there was a strict distinction between amateur and professional athletes. However, even after that distinction ended, prizes were more likely to be goods than cash. Examples in my experience have been clothing, a mug, chocolate, a set of tools and a bunch of bananas.

However, it's one sport which above any other epitomizes the concept that it's the taking part that is most important. A good day out on the fells is in itself a prize beyond measure.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:34 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:43 pm
However, it's one sport which above any other epitomizes the concept that it's the taking part that is most important. A good day out on the fells is in itself a prize beyond measure.
Very true indeed :) More very long walking here but very similar reasons!

Stewart Reuben
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:04 pm

I read somewhere, some years ago, that only about 100 tennis players made a living solely from ompeting in tournaments. Of course some of these players made mega sums. The expenes are higher than for chess of course. The tennis players, like chess players have other sources of income from their sport of course.

When one organises a chess tournament, it is usually cheaper to pay start money and lower prize money in order to attract the 'stars'.

Poker is quite different and has changed since my time. I had just two losing years out of 40 as a professional. But my income from tournaments was neglligible, that is why I seldom played in them. 1989 I cleared £250,000 in cash games after expenses, in 9 months. None of it taxable. The playing expenses are: table charges and travel costs. A mere £30 an hour. A few players are sponsored in tournaments. A few are backed. but why accept a backer, who expects to get 50% of the prizes, if you expect to win?

Bridge under the EBU, where duplicate bridge is played, has NO prize money. Some professionals make money because people pay them to partner them.
There is prize money in other countries.

Reg Clucas
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Reg Clucas » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:23 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:43 pm
prizes were more likely to be goods than cash. Examples in my experience have been clothing, a mug, chocolate, a set of tools and a bunch of bananas.
I don't know how I managed to forget this in my previous post, but I've just remembered that at one race I won...a chess set!

David Sedgwick
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:45 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:04 pm
Bridge under the EBU, where duplicate bridge is played, has NO prize money.
That is not correct.

See for example the attached programme for the EBU Year End Congress in London from 27th to 30th December 2018.

The prize money is not substantial, but it exists.
Attachments
Year End Congress 2018.pdf
(509.47 KiB) Downloaded 16 times

Stewart Reuben
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 am

Dvid Sedgwick
I had never before seen that. At the moment I am in Tenerife. The biggest prize is £20, to be redeemed against a future bridge holiday.
The EBU Year end Congress does indeed quote prize money. But it does not say what th entry fee is (or I missed it). Surely it isn't free entry? What s the entry fee?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:47 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 am
The EBU Year end Congress does indeed quote prize money. But it does not say what th entry fee is (or I missed it). Surely it isn't free entry? What s the entry fee?
I noticed this
Telephones and other electrical devices
Please switch off your mobile phone. If you must have it on for emergencies, switch it to silent and leave the playing area before answering it. You may not use any electronic equipment within the playing room for texting, emailing or otherwise communicating. You may not use electronic cigarettes in the playing room.
Are there no Bridge programs that can potentially assist players?

Brian Towers
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Brian Towers » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:36 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:47 am
Are there no Bridge programs that can potentially assist players?
They are awaiting technology which allows them to "see" through the backs of the cards in the other players' hands.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:21 am

The economics of bridge are quite simple: the Professionals are paid to partner/play on teams of 4/6 by private sponsors. Like how say Guildford I think in the 4NCL run, except that in bridge the sponsors tend to insist on playing.
(Its much easier to 'hide' one reasonably competent but lower standard player than in chess!)

The bribes for 'normal' people are masterpoints - certificates from the authorities that they accumulate over time to earn ranks etc. Much less merit based than the somewhat ruthlessly accurate grading system in chess. They do seem to work very well to motivate people though. I couldn't say why.

Reg Clucas wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:23 pm
I don't know how I managed to forget this in my previous post, but I've just remembered that at one race I won...a chess set!
Wow :)

Paul Habershon
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Re: State of Chess: How much money is in the sport?

Post by Paul Habershon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:21 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:21 am

The bribes for 'normal' people are masterpoints - certificates from the authorities that they accumulate over time to earn ranks etc. Much less merit based than the somewhat ruthlessly accurate grading system in chess. They do seem to work very well to motivate people though. I couldn't say why.


I'm sure Martin also knows of the bridge national grading system (NGS) which ranks individuals, factoring in strength of partner and of the 'field'. This can be motivational, especially as the grade is 'rolling' because affiliated bridge clubs upload session results almost immediately. Indeed, this is also a requirement because it is how the EBU levies its fees according to the number of bums on seats. It is possible, however, to opt to keep one's grade 'private'. This would not work in chess with its graded sections at congresses and need for transparency in team board orders.

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