End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Roger Lancaster
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed May 15, 2019 1:11 pm

LOL, I recruit, you entice players to join you, he poaches.

MatthewParry
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by MatthewParry » Wed May 15, 2019 3:52 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:40 am

Evidently Matthew is familiar with "Yes, Minister"!
Well spotted. My memory for TV trivia (good TV trivia anyway) is better than my memory for chess moves, which tends to fail at move 3. Unless it is a preferred opening of mine in which case I can last until move 4.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed May 15, 2019 6:01 pm

" I recruit, you entice players to join you, he poaches."

"I offer the players the opportunity to play in a high-class team", surely?

Richard Bates
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Richard Bates » Wed May 15, 2019 7:01 pm

I was once 'enquired about' ten minutes after my team had got relegated, as a result of me losing a 7 hour 90+ move game, against a player from the team from which the subsequent enquiry was made ... ;)

Mentioning no names... :)

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed May 15, 2019 7:16 pm

Well, sounds like the transfer season had opened ...!!

Alex Holowczak
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 15, 2019 7:25 pm

Incidentally, on the point about loyalty when a team is relegated, my perception is that the league is the strongest it has been in the last 10 years. Others may have a more objective basis for this comment, but:
- Guildford in 2018-19 were much stronger than the then-dominant Wood Green side of 10 years ago
- New teams in that time, such as Cheddleton and Manx have strengthened Division 1
- An influx of other teams to Division 1 and 2 via the Division 3 North who weren't in the 4NCL before its inception: Spirit of Atticus, NE England, Alba, Gonzaga spring to mind, but there may have been others I forgot.
- Established teams like The ADs, mostly made up of the same players as they were 10 years ago, have gone from being established in Division 1 to escaping relegation to Division 3 only in the final match of the last season. This really suggests that the new teams have gone past them, while they have been more or less consistent.

So compared to how the league was 10 years ago, the standard of the league has risen in general in all divisions, so save for fast-improving players such as juniors, perhaps relegation isn't really so catastrophic as it might be in terms of needing to jump ship?

I chose 10 years because I realised the upcoming season would be my 10th with any 4NCL involvement... :shock:

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri May 17, 2019 5:34 pm

A number of points there. Agreed about the current peak strength of the divisions over the last ten years, though in historic terms, we arguably had the strongest div 2 in 2004/5 and the div 1 in 2005/6 was arguably the strongest in depth (Ok, helped by having only 12 teams) and was competitive at the top too. McShane did play on board eight for Wood Green on board eight in the last match of that season 2005/6, after all, and they also had the then world's strongest female...

I wouldn't use the troubles of the ADs this season to prove much. From 2010/11 onwards, they were a struggling-to-survive first division team, or "just about" established in div one, if you prefer. They also clearly had a bad year this time around, in a particularly deep field. It seems more accurate to think of them, in general terms, as a team struggling to survive in div 1 declining gently to a team generally struggling to get promoted back (it generally being easier to get promoted there than to survive there).

Perhaps the most interesting point is indeed to observe the number of strong teams that started out in Division 3 North. You might arguably include 3Cs - they had existed earlier too, but folded and returned via Div 3N.

Another explanation of the increased strength in recent years is surely the number of non-UK players. Most prominently, women from the continent, frequently employed so as to allow a male regular to play on board eight. This was also part of the story behind the surge in strength between 2004-6, though it didn't last, largely because Wood Green partially collapsed in 2006 and the change in venues inconvenienced both North West Eagles and 3Cs, who had respectively fielded Marie Sebag and Alexandra Kosteniuk (or her sister) in recent years.

Hopefully the current standard of the League will be maintained for longer than during the high points of 2004/6; but the lack of further strong teams coming through the divisions suggests that it will not rise much, if at all, further.

Mick Norris
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Mick Norris » Fri May 17, 2019 5:53 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:34 pm
Perhaps the most interesting point is indeed to observe the number of strong teams that started out in Division 3 North. You might arguably include 3Cs - they had existed earlier too, but folded and returned via Div 3N.
Div 3N has been a success, but 3Cs 1 have never played, even though 3Cs 2 still do, and have been close to promotion the last 2 seasons
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: End of season, snapshots of gloom, part four

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri May 17, 2019 8:26 pm

Oh, they must have re-entered before div 3 North started, then. I haven't the same personal experience to rely on when it comes to div 3 N !

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