ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
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ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
This year's U19 School's finals are taking place at Uppingham Schools on 2nd and 3rd July.
16 teams from schools aorund the country are taking part. Top seeds RGS Guildford are very strong, with an average grade of over 190. Even so their first round match, like many others, was close.
There is live reporting of the results on the League Management System at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/efixtures
16 teams from schools aorund the country are taking part. Top seeds RGS Guildford are very strong, with an average grade of over 190. Even so their first round match, like many others, was close.
There is live reporting of the results on the League Management System at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/efixtures
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
... but it appears to be misleading. For example, at the time of writing, there are three schools shown as having 4 match points after 2 rounds in the league table. Look at the individual match results though, and the matches are still in progress with none of the schools having scored the 3.5 points (out of 6) they need to win the match. They're leading the match, but haven't yet won it.Neill Cooper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:57 pmThere is live reporting of the results on the League Management System at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/efixtures
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
Whilst the individual match results are correct the table is not as this is not a Swiss tournament but a modified knock out.
Tomorrow morning the semi-final matches are:
RGS Guildford vs City of London School
RGS Newcastle vs Hampton School
Tomorrow morning the semi-final matches are:
RGS Guildford vs City of London School
RGS Newcastle vs Hampton School
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
The final is Hampton School vs City of London Boys School
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
I gather from other sources that City of London Boys won- congrats to them.
However, I have to say I am rather confused by the format of this year's U19 final.
The published rules (https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/un ... s-2018-19/) say it should be a 4 round swiss, and no drawn matches are allowed. Meantime the table at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/table suggests that drawn matches were allowed and that it was a 4 round swiss (with reigning champions Reading prevailing).
However, Neill's posts reference a semi- and a final.
What have I missed? Are there some different rules published somewhere?
(FAOD I have no vested interest - whilst he was at school at Reading, Matthew is now at uni - I am simply curious).
However, I have to say I am rather confused by the format of this year's U19 final.
The published rules (https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/un ... s-2018-19/) say it should be a 4 round swiss, and no drawn matches are allowed. Meantime the table at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/table suggests that drawn matches were allowed and that it was a 4 round swiss (with reigning champions Reading prevailing).
However, Neill's posts reference a semi- and a final.
What have I missed? Are there some different rules published somewhere?
(FAOD I have no vested interest - whilst he was at school at Reading, Matthew is now at uni - I am simply curious).
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
I think the problem is that the ecflms system doesn't correctly report a knock out system where drawn matches are broken by tie break.Jim Wadsworth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:19 pmMeantime the table at https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/39266/table suggests that drawn matches were allowed and that it was a 4 round swiss (with reigning champions Reading prevailing).
It would appear all teams played to the end but only first round and continuing winners were playing for the Championship, whilst first round losers who subsequently won were playing for the Plate.
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
Jim, Roger is correct. Please ignore the league tables. I am sure the full results of this event will soon be published by the organisers.
In the mean time one approach would be to look at every draw and decide who won. City of London Boys School won 2 matches on board count, and thereby won all 4 fixtures and therefore the championships. (Similarly Wilson’s lost to Tiffin on bottom board elimination.)
When I proposed that the final be expanded to 16 teams, which has been hugely successful in terms of motivating secondary school chess, Dave Welch developed a fair system for pairing the event. This is the first year ‘live’ match results have been published but the unique tournament structure cannot be replicated by the LMS.
In the mean time one approach would be to look at every draw and decide who won. City of London Boys School won 2 matches on board count, and thereby won all 4 fixtures and therefore the championships. (Similarly Wilson’s lost to Tiffin on bottom board elimination.)
When I proposed that the final be expanded to 16 teams, which has been hugely successful in terms of motivating secondary school chess, Dave Welch developed a fair system for pairing the event. This is the first year ‘live’ match results have been published but the unique tournament structure cannot be replicated by the LMS.
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
What was the tiebreak if all 6 games in a match had ended in draws?Neill Cooper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:51 pm
When I proposed that the final be expanded to 16 teams, which has been hugely successful in terms of motivating secondary school chess, Dave Welch developed a fair system for pairing the event.
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
Thanks Neill.Neill Cooper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:51 pmPlease ignore the league tables. I am sure the full results of this event will soon be published by the organisers.
......
When I proposed that the final be expanded to 16 teams, which has been hugely successful in terms of motivating secondary school chess, Dave Welch developed a fair system for pairing the event.
Will the actual rules that seem to have been used - and I am sure Dave's methodology is excellent btw - be published too? Just seems a bit strange to run an event in a way that appears inconsistent with the advertised approach!
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
The rules of the Under 19 National Schools Chess Championship may be found at:
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/un ... s-2018-19/
The rules have changed very little in the past four years since Neill Cooper introduced the new format in 2016: sixteen teams at the Final, no age handicap and a prior repechage to give a second chance to strong teams knocked out at the regional stage by an even stronger neighbour.
My report as U19 NSCC Organiser may be found at:
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/u19-finals/
In due course, there will be some additional photos and a few games or tactical positions from the Final. Congratulations to all sixteen teams on qualifying for the Finals (from an original entry of 142 teams) and particular congratulations to City of London School on their first-ever victory in the Championship.
Phill Beckett improved the event by publishing the results virtually live on the ECF's LMS, enabling those on-site and elsewhere to follow the results. As Neill has pointed out, one snag has appeared which understandably caused confusion: the league table should be ignored since it treats a 3-3 match as a draw, whereas the rules have always been clear about tie-breaks. We do run a seeded swiss, but with no drawn matches allowed, so we followed the same procedures as in previous years. Essentially, the old knock-out format in retained under the umbrella of a seeded swiss with two teams unbeaten at the Finals competing in the fourth round for the trophy.
A couple of quick points in answer to other queries. The LMS system seems to refer to the "winning team" whilst the match is in progress, where a team might be only 2-0 up; a team may well know it has won when it is 3-0 up (e.g. having won on boards 2, 3 and 5). Secondly, in answer to Roger's query, a 3-3 match which cannot be decided by boardcount or bottom board elimination (because all six games are drawn) is awarded to the team with Black on board 1.
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/un ... s-2018-19/
The rules have changed very little in the past four years since Neill Cooper introduced the new format in 2016: sixteen teams at the Final, no age handicap and a prior repechage to give a second chance to strong teams knocked out at the regional stage by an even stronger neighbour.
My report as U19 NSCC Organiser may be found at:
https://www.englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/u19-finals/
In due course, there will be some additional photos and a few games or tactical positions from the Final. Congratulations to all sixteen teams on qualifying for the Finals (from an original entry of 142 teams) and particular congratulations to City of London School on their first-ever victory in the Championship.
Phill Beckett improved the event by publishing the results virtually live on the ECF's LMS, enabling those on-site and elsewhere to follow the results. As Neill has pointed out, one snag has appeared which understandably caused confusion: the league table should be ignored since it treats a 3-3 match as a draw, whereas the rules have always been clear about tie-breaks. We do run a seeded swiss, but with no drawn matches allowed, so we followed the same procedures as in previous years. Essentially, the old knock-out format in retained under the umbrella of a seeded swiss with two teams unbeaten at the Finals competing in the fourth round for the trophy.
A couple of quick points in answer to other queries. The LMS system seems to refer to the "winning team" whilst the match is in progress, where a team might be only 2-0 up; a team may well know it has won when it is 3-0 up (e.g. having won on boards 2, 3 and 5). Secondly, in answer to Roger's query, a 3-3 match which cannot be decided by boardcount or bottom board elimination (because all six games are drawn) is awarded to the team with Black on board 1.
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
Do you amalgamate first , second and third round losers in the pairings? I rather had the impression that after round 1, it divided into two 16 team, three round tournaments.John Swain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:54 amEssentially, the old knock-out format in retained under the umbrella of a seeded swiss with two teams unbeaten at the Finals competing in the fourth round for the trophy.
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Re: ECF U19 National Schools Chess Championships final 2019
One advantage of the pairing system originally devised by Dave Welch is that a first-round loser can still finish third equal by winning the next three matches - they are not limited to 9th-16th position.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:03 amDo you amalgamate first , second and third round losers in the pairings? I rather had the impression that after round 1, it divided into two 16 team, three round tournaments.John Swain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:54 amEssentially, the old knock-out format in retained under the umbrella of a seeded swiss with two teams unbeaten at the Finals competing in the fourth round for the trophy.