FIDE's 400pt rule

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Chris Rice
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FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:40 pm

There has been a story rumbling around for a while now regarding how Czech player, Igor Rausis, has been hacking the system. Basically playing players rated way below 400 points below him (usually between 1400-2100 Elo) but for calculation purposes, however low their grade is, its counted as only 400 points below him. Here are the calculations and on the latest list he's up to 2686. Quite why he's doing it is a mystery, perhaps its just vanity, but if he keeps going in theory he could pass Carlsen at some point.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:21 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:40 pm
Quite why he's doing it is a mystery, perhaps its just vanity, but if he keeps going in theory he could pass Carlsen at some point.
It's less than a point a game, so it's going to take a while.

Surprising really that he's allowed to enter tournaments where he is rated more than 400 points over all or nearly all the competitors. Perhaps being an arbiter helps.

Elo systems are vulnerable to this type of gaming. Didn't Claude Bloodgood have one of the highest USCF ratings until they changed the rules?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:32 pm

The ECF system is also vulnerable to this type of gaming. Look at the progress of my ECF rapidplay grade over the years.

Ian Thompson
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:44 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:21 pm
Surprising really that he's allowed to enter tournaments where he is rated more than 400 points over all or nearly all the competitors.
What's it going to look like for a tournament if it advertises itself as open and then refuses entries from highly rated players?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:01 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:44 pm
What's it going to look like for a tournament if it advertises itself as open and then refuses entries from highly rated players?
The curiosity is that he can get players rated more than 400 points below him for the entire tournament. GMs and IMs competing in British weekenders will regularly face players more than 400 points below in the first couple of rounds. In later rounds they face higher rated opposition, including their fellow high rated entrants.

Alex Bullen
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Alex Bullen » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:04 am

Last month he gained 17 points so if he keeps up this rate he'll be 2890 by this time next year. Rather amusing but I guess he'll start to qualify for things like the Candidates if he continues like this?

Leonard Barden
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Leonard Barden » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:11 am

Alex Bullen wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:04 am
Last month he gained 17 points so if he keeps up this rate he'll be 2890 by this time next year. Rather amusing but I guess he'll start to qualify for things like the Candidates if he continues like this?
A post on chessgames.com provides a more detailed prognosis:

Just for fun, here's what would happen if he keeps going (assuming he doesn't lose a single game and only plays players rated more than 400 below him):

- In 18 games, he will cross 2700

- In 80 games, he will cross 2750

- In 93 games, he will enter the top 10 (assuming a threshold of about 2760)

- In 143 games, he will cross 2800

- In 233 games, he will overtake Magnus Carlsen (current rating of 2872)

- In 245 games, he will break the record for highest FIDE rating ever

- In 254 games, he will break the record for highest live rating ever

- In 268 games, he will cross 2900

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:57 am

Alex Bullen wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:04 am
Rather amusing but I guess he'll start to qualify for things like the Candidates if he continues like this?
He seems to be exploiting the reluctance of fellow higher rated players to enter the same tournaments as him.

Here's a recent one, where he was held to a last round draw.

https://ratings.fide.com/view_source.phtml?code=202800

Now that he's above 2650, he has to continue to consistently beat 2250 players. But playing in "all standard" Opens, he won't meet them so often.

FIDE's solution, if they need one, would be to raise the 400 point rule to a 500 or 600 point one. That might be at the risk of encouraging defaults by players unwilling to put their ratings at risk for a reward even less than they get at the moment.

Chris Rice
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:48 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:57 am
FIDE's solution, if they need one, would be to raise the 400 point rule to a 500 or 600 point one. That might be at the risk of encouraging defaults by players unwilling to put their ratings at risk for a reward even less than they get at the moment.
Another idea is to cap the number of players you can do this against, perhaps per year or over a certain number of games. Sutovsky commented on FB that Rausis had been invited to one of the Grand Swisses in the light of his high rating but Rausis had turned the invite down.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:43 pm

There were similar goings on with a Russian called Afromeev a few years ago, though to make it more obvious he was "only" an FM.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:43 pm
There were similar goings on with a Russian called Afromeev a few years ago, though to make it more obvious he was "only" an FM.
That is a popular misconception, but Afromeev's method was entirely different. Also, he was without doubt deliberately manipulating his rating, which is far from clear in the case currently under discussion.

Ian Thompson
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:06 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:44 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:21 pm
Surprising really that he's allowed to enter tournaments where he is rated more than 400 points over all or nearly all the competitors.
What's it going to look like for a tournament if it advertises itself as open and then refuses entries from highly rated players?
Following on from this I see that the organisers of the recent Lugano Master tournament approved of him playing, describing him as "Special Guest and Master Open winner 2019: Super GM Igors Rausis (CZE)" (http://www.swisschesstour.com/1/lugano_ ... 38282.html).

He scored 5/5, beating three 2300 players (seeded 2, 3 and 4 in the tournament) and two 2100 players (seeded 6 and 7), gaining 5.3 points according to Chess Results.

Steven DuCharme
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Steven DuCharme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:39 am

Rausis v. Carlsen loser quits chess permanently.
I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight :mrgreen:

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:41 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:06 pm
I see that the organisers of the recent Lugano Master tournament approved of him playing
Of course they did. Are we wondering why Paignton haven't asked Keith to stop playing there, since he's obviously just harvesting cheap rating and grading points? We're not, because the idea is daft.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:53 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:41 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:06 pm
I see that the organisers of the recent Lugano Master tournament approved of him playing
Of course they did. Are we wondering why Paignton haven't asked Keith to stop playing there, since he's obviously just harvesting cheap rating and grading points? We're not, because the idea is daft.
More relevant is that he lives in Paignton and the prize money is good.

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