World Cup Knockout 2019

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm

I had a go at a tournament bracket, which I think explains it a bit more easily. It's obviously a fake tournament with fake names. If you get the seeds in the right place, it's not so difficult conceptually, but hard to put it all into English. http://bracketcloud.com/tournament/150851

Keith Arkell
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Keith Arkell » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219

Matt Fletcher
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Matt Fletcher » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 pm
He was supposed to be Black, by my reading of the regulations.
Yes, my reading was that he accepts that the colour is correct - his issue seems to be that he asked as he wasn’t sure, but was given the wrong information.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:34 pm

Matt Fletcher wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 pm
He was supposed to be Black, by my reading of the regulations.
Yes, my reading was that he accepts that the colour is correct - his issue seems to be that he asked as he wasn’t sure, but was given the wrong information.
Yes, I've read that now. Not sure I can really defend that if that turns out to be the case... :(

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JustinHorton
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:20 pm

Hard to know what the case is, though, since he doesn't actually say what he was told.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Tim Harding
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm
I had a go at a tournament bracket, which I think explains it a bit more easily. It's obviously a fake tournament with fake names. If you get the seeds in the right place, it's not so difficult conceptually, but hard to put it all into English. http://bracketcloud.com/tournament/150851
Yes that does explain it, thank you.

What a shame that in your fake tournament you couldn't have let the winner be the one chess player with the non-fake name: the great snooker champion Steve Davis! (At least he won his first round match.)
Tim Harding
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Tim Harding
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Keith Arkell
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by Keith Arkell » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:33 am

Tim Harding wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pm
Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
I hadn't thought of that, Tim! It is still losing, but creates the best practical obstacles for the Bishops, especially as many of the winning lines take more than 50 moves to execute.

NickFaulks
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:07 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:41 pm
Botvinnik v Tal 1961
Timman v Speelman 1992
Thanks, good examples from the old days when top players could really play endings properly, at 24 mph. At least I think that was still the case in 1992.

The Botvinnik ending isn't really that interesting, since I expect both players knew he was comfortably sunk when he went into it ( that's the tablebase talking, not me ).

Timman v Speelman was played remarkably accurately, but was very finely balanced and on a 50 move basis the theoretical win probably did come and go. Why did Speelman resign after 25 moves when White was clearly making progress but the job was not done?

1. Perhaps he was not inclined to seal and come back for yet another session, after Timman had checked the winning plan.

2. Were those the days when there were exceptions to the 50 move rule, and this one was something like 75?

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:46 am

Tim Harding wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm
What a shame that in your fake tournament you couldn't have let the winner be the one chess player with the non-fake name: the great snooker champion Steve Davis! (At least he won his first round match.)
In my last real job (not chess related), my boss was called John Smith. He was a chess player and a stronger one than Steve Davis.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:52 am

Keith Arkell wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:33 am
Tim Harding wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pm
Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
I hadn't thought of that, Tim! It is still losing, but creates the best practical obstacles for the Bishops, especially as many of the winning lines take more than 50 moves to execute.
I believe that it was long thought to be drawn, until 5 man endings were solved by computer in the mid 1980s.

Lagarde never reached a position which was winning in less than the remainder of the 50 moves, but he got closer than Yuffa did.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:59 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:07 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:41 pm
Botvinnik v Tal 1961
Timman v Speelman 1992
Thanks, good examples from the old days when top players could really play endings properly, at 24 mph. At least I think that was still the case in 1992.

The Botvinnik ending isn't really that interesting, since I expect both players knew he was comfortably sunk when he went into it ( that's the tablebase talking, not me ).

Timman v Speelman was played remarkably accurately, but was very finely balanced and on a 50 move basis the theoretical win probably did come and go. Why did Speelman resign after 25 moves when White was clearly making progress but the job was not done?

1. Perhaps he was not inclined to seal and come back for yet another session, after Timman had checked the winning plan.

2. Were those the days when there were exceptions to the 50 move rule, and this one was something like 75?
Yes, it was 75 moves at that time.

Hodgson v Agdestein, Hastings 1991 - 1992, was a R+B v R which lasted more than 50 moves, although Agdestein gave up before the end.

(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)

https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778

NickFaulks
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:24 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:59 am
(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778
I would hazard a guess that neither player allowed this to impact their New Year celebrations.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Cup Knockout 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:46 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:59 am
(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778
NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:24 am
I would hazard a guess that neither player allowed this to impact their New Year celebrations.
You would guess wrong.

Hodgson spoke privately to Stewart Reuben and me at the adjournment. Unless he was then lying, which I doubt, he did a considerable amount of work before the second session.

Nowadays, of course, he would not have that opportunity.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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