When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

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John Reyes
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When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by John Reyes » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:49 pm

I was told by the Lancashire President that I was not invited nor are you welcome at the Lancashire AGM because as of the 2019-2020 season, we will be moving to the Manchester Chess League as one person from Lancashire don't like me and hence won't let me volunteer for positions in the chess organisation for Lancashire and the NCCU.

so has this happen to anyone else?
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John McKenna
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by John McKenna » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:57 am

Sorry to hear that, John.

The specific problem you are experiencing is a known one, which you seem to have stepped into the middle of at some point in its long history.

All attempts to resolve it before you got involved failed and, it seems to me, that your attempts to bridge an unbridgeable gap have only resulted in you making an implacable foe.

That was probably inevitable, but at least you tried. Time to move on and leave it behind, if you ask me.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:57 pm

"so has this happen to anyone else?"

It has certainly happened in Surrey and probably Essex, but Lancashire seem to be leading the way here.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:13 pm

It depends what the criteria is to be able to attend and vote at the AGM. If you have a right to do so under the constitution then they can't prevent you from attending, although if they chose to deny you entry it's hard to see who could consider the complaint and any redress.
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Nick Grey
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:25 pm

I missed a Club AGM as I was working. Missed another due to a World Cup match even though start time was put back so members could do both. However my better half wanted a post-mortem analysis and more wine and so I did not attend.

I cannot remember anyone being barred from attending a Surrey AGM but then again I struggle with items and would need to refer to papers and minutes. I congratulate Surrey in shortening every years AGM. It will be nice to avoid a tea break in 2020.

So John I have a bit of sympathy with you but would give that up if you are not wanted. I can recommend a couple of films to watch instead.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Michael Farthing » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:22 am

I could suggest that John concentrate on his dart sklls - but that might be misinterpreted.

Ian Thompson
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:15 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:13 pm
If you have a right to do so under the constitution then they can't prevent you from attending, although if they chose to deny you entry it's hard to see who could consider the complaint and any redress.
I'd have thought if someone entitled to attend an AGM, with the right to vote and/or speak, was prevented from doing so that would bring into question the validity of any decisions made at the AGM. The risk then is that someone who doesn't like a decision that was made tries to get it ruled invalid. If enough people agree you might then end up having to have an EGM to sort it out.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:55 pm

There is perhaps one point here that others may have missed. Someone may be entitled, under the constitution or equivalent item of an organisation, to attend its AGM. That does not necessarily mean that they are entitled to enter the premises on which the AGM is held. For example, if the AGM is held at a public house from which someone has been barred, the fact that s/he is entitled to attend the AGM will probably be of no avail.

I suppose, of course, that s/he could argue that the AGM was held at an inappropriate location. I'm vaguely reminded of a publicly-quoted but publicity-shy company which used to hold its AGMs on New Year's Eve (or perhaps Christmas Day) in an inconvenient location to deter attendance.

David Sedgwick
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:55 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:13 pm
It depends what the criteria is to be able to attend and vote at the AGM. If you have a right to do so under the constitution then they can't prevent you from attending, although if they chose to deny you entry it's hard to see who could consider the complaint and any redress.
Sometimes that is not impossible to achieve.

In another country with which I have chess connections, a player was suspended from his National Chess Federation for reasons which did have some validity. However, it was well documented that his suspension ended on 31sr December 2018.

Nevertheless, when the player tried to enter the 2019 National Championships a couple of months ago, he was told that he could not do so as he was suspended indefinitely. That of course would also have meant that he could not attend the AGM, which was held yesterday, Saturday 7th September.

The player raised the matter with his country's Attorney General, who intervened to ensure that he was not excluded from the meeting. I have now received confirmation that he was indeed present.

Unfortunately I fear that the UK Attorney General will currently be too preoccupied to take up John Reyes's case.

Nick Grey
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:10 pm

Just a note to John that Volume 2 of a film is on Dave now.

Perhaps you ought to call Uma? She seems to have a great way of resolving matters.

Neil Graham
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Neil Graham » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:01 pm

Every chess organisation I have been a member of has quite specific rules on who is entitled to attend/vote at meetings. There is no sign of a constitution on the website of the chess association mentioned in the opening minute. The President of that body may be quite right in stating that John is not entitled to attend - but it's impossible to tell without reference to the constitution. Bearing in mind my previous comments on the NCCU constitution I wouldn't entertain high hopes.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:12 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:01 pm
Every chess organisation I have been a member of has quite specific rules on who is entitled to attend/vote at meetings. There is no sign of a constitution on the website of the chess association mentioned in the opening minute. The President of that body may be quite right in stating that John is not entitled to attend - but it's impossible to tell without reference to the constitution. Bearing in mind my previous comments on the NCCU constitution I wouldn't entertain high hopes.
I think the key point is the difference between not entitled to attend and not welcome. In any case one of the jobs of the President/ Chairman at any meeting is to maintain order and in extreme cases somebody causing disruption might legitimately be asked to leave. Of course the authority to do so should not be abused.
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Joey Stewart
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Joey Stewart » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:41 pm

What amazes me most about this situation is that there are still leagues where the AGM is so oversubscribed that they can afford to bar people from attending!
All the experiences I have had in various other leagues it seems like more of a struggle just to get new people along who might lend a hand then having the luxury of turning anyone away.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:41 pm
What amazes me most about this situation is that there are still leagues where the AGM is so oversubscribed that they can afford to bar people from attending!
All the experiences I have had in various other leagues it seems like more of a struggle just to get new people along who might lend a hand then having the luxury of turning anyone away.
Yes but, and I'm sure no-one who posts here falls into this category, there is a small minority of vexacious nuisances whom most chairs would doubtless prefer to discourage from attending their AGMs.

J T Melsom
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Re: When have you ever been told that you can't go to a AGM

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:34 pm

I can think of at least one occasion when the debate at the Bucks AGM was very carefully managed by the Chair and Secretary to avoid lengthy exposition on game fee or membership. :)

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