Council Papers are out

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Adam Raoof
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:42 pm

Angus French wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:42 am
The membership list for 24 September has 12 ECF SUPPORTERs.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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Don’t stop playing chess!

Mick Norris
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:28 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:43 am
So, by highest number, you mean that in a 9 team league, you assign the bye as team number 10?
Yes.

As Berks League controller, part of the job is to build a list of fixtures and date ranges for attendees at a fixture meeting to put dates to paper. This is done using a spreadsheet powered by the Berger tables.
Interesting; I've automatically assigned the bye to number 10 in the example, but not thought about why
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Ian Thompson
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:37 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:38 pm
Chris Goodall (quoting hypothetical development officer) wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:08 pm
Because I am literally paid per ECF member,
The ECF's financing model means it likely gets more revenue from 40 people playing 5 graded games each, than from 100 people playing 2 games.
The hypothetical development officer wouldn't get any credit for 100 people playing 2 games each because they wouldn't have any financial incentive to voluntarily become members. He'd have to convince them there was some other reason to join the ECF. If he was successful then he'd deserve credit for doing that.

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Chris Goodall » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:10 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:38 pm
Chris Goodall (quoting hypothetical development officer) wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:08 pm
Because I am literally paid per ECF member,
The ECF's financing model means it likely gets more revenue from 40 people playing 5 graded games each, than from 100 people playing 2 games.
This. Marginal cost has been an alien concept to the ECF ever since NMS days (and I was 20 when NMS happened, so I don't even remember the poll tax).

Incentivising non-players to become players will be our top priority! Unfortunately, non-players don't vote in meetings or give us money, so incentivising existing players to play more games will be our even topper priority.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:01 am
I can think of no policy more destructive to local organisations than the ECF announcing that, henceforth, "how to organise chess" is proprietary knowledge that will be revealed to a select group, in person, for a fee. Assuming that there is some great secret to running a local chess league (and having run one for five years, there's really nothing that I couldn't fit onto a side of A4) then surely to God, we owe it to local organisers to make it publicly available for the sum of £0.00 so it's not a secret any more? If the finer workings of the Berger tables absolutely must be explained by a human talking through a PowerPoint presentation, then let them do it once, video the damn thing, and put it on YouTube.
Actually, I find that in general, the quality of chess organisers in England is not that great. I say this as someone who, in my previous role and even now to some extent, has spent a considerable amount of time tidying up after them.

Despite this, I do have the greatest sympathy for these organisers. They're normally volunteers who are helping out to do something that no one else can be bothered to do, and do it out of a sense of duty to their club/league/tournament. You can't expect them to be as well-versed in various regulations as someone like Adam Raoof, for example, who organises multiple tournaments per month and has a professional IT setup around his events to handle everything relatively easily.

I receive emails asking me about various things to do with tournament organisation reasonably often. While some organisers are "set in their ways", others want to improve and others are just starting out in the field and want good advice to do the best job that they can. I think training courses for such people would be reasonably well-received. I'm not sure I could reproduce the answers I've given over the years into a short Power Point. There's not just leagues, remember - there are congresses too, and even club internal events.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:11 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:47 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:28 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:43 am
So, by highest number, you mean that in a 9 team league, you assign the bye as team number 10?
Yes.

As Berks League controller, part of the job is to build a list of fixtures and date ranges for attendees at a fixture meeting to put dates to paper. This is done using a spreadsheet powered by the Berger tables.
Interesting; I've automatically assigned the bye to number 10 in the example, but not thought about why
Presumably it's because you've got 9 teams, so you just assigned them PIN 1-9. If you do the natural thing then it's not much of a trick at all.

Angus French
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Angus French » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:28 am

Message to Bronze members about the AGM here.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:41 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:11 am

The AGM papers, in particular the Director's report suggest that the ECF has appointed a development officer. The mystery remains as to why the appointment remains secret.
Presumably so The ECF eNewsletter October 2019 could break the news.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Alex McFarlane » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:25 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:41 pm
Presumably so The ECF eNewsletter October 2019 could break the news.
My understanding is that when the ECF papers announced that an appointment had been made the interviews hadn't even taken place.

Some might feel that having made a premature announcement the ECF was forced into appointing one of the candidates. Those less cynical may say that the candidates were so exceptional that an appointment was guaranteed.

Which camp are you in?

David Sedgwick
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:51 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:25 pm
Some might feel that having made a premature announcement the ECF was forced into appointing one of the candidates. Those less cynical may say that the candidates were so exceptional that an appointment was guaranteed.

Which camp are you in?
Neither. But I feel that the successful applicant, Carl Portman, is a good choice.

Julie Denning
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Julie Denning » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:41 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:25 pm

My understanding is that when the ECF papers announced that an appointment had been made the interviews hadn't even taken place.
Correct. A bit of anticipation when the AGM announcement went out.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:46 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:25 pm
My understanding is that when the ECF papers announced that an appointment had been made the interviews hadn't even taken place.
Julie Denning wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:41 pm
Correct. A bit of anticipation when the AGM announcement went out.
Julie, thank you for not attempting a cover-up, but how precisely do the Board justify misleading Council members in this way?

Mike Truran
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:29 pm

The paper was written to reflect the fact that many people would be reading the paper for the first time on or only shortly before the day of the Council meeting and so to reflect the position as it was expected to be (and indeed will be) as at the day of the Council meeting.

The intention was to help rather than mislead Council members. But each to their own view, I suppose.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:46 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:29 pm
The paper was written to reflect the fact that many people would be reading the paper for the first time on the day of the Council meeting ...
Really? I would have thought that those Council members who haven't taken the trouble to read the paper in advance probably won't read it at all.
Mike Truran wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:29 pm
But each to their own view, I suppose.
Indeed so. My view is that Council members are entitled to expect that the Board will seek to ensure that Council papers are accurate at the time of issue. I am amazed that you think otherwise.

J T Melsom
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Re: Council Papers are out

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:52 pm

I think that provided it is understood which time-frame the information relates to - whether date of meeting or date of papers being issued - it doesn't matter. Nor is this sort of thing uncommon in the public sector, voluntary organisations or I suspect private bodies where the data is not price sensitive.

But if people want to grumble and have nothing better to do...

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