Development Officer appointment

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7297
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:12 pm

Heh. I just noticed Carl's using the same avatar as me (the dragon one)! :D

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:54 pm

It is difficult to know whether to comment on such threads isn't it?

Generally I am very pleased that the ECF have managed to get funding from the chess trust for a Development Officer and appointed someone who is well respected, notwithstanding my reservation about the likelihood of success. But I was a bit reluctant to say so in the other thread with other posters hinting at controversy in the procurement process again.

I am completely happy with Tim's decision to ask the governance committee to investigate and to make that request public. I think this is appropriate use of their time, I respect their competence, and I generally do not support the position that these things are better resolved behind closed doors. Justice needs to be seen to be done.

I can offer Carl some reassurance that I did not read Tim's complaint as an attack on his integrity. I read it as a complaint about the decision made to appoint him, not Carl himself. Maybe a bit unwise to respond in the terms he did though, since the one person who should not really know all the relevant facts is the candidate themselves.

While I maintain Justin remains wrong on all matters of substance, you can't criticise his ability to argue. So if Carl wanted to be contribute to this community, I'd suggest starting with an easier argument. Maybe convincing Roger game fee was a bad system, for example.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6442
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:54 pm
.

While I maintain Justin remains wrong on all matters of substance, you can't criticise his ability to argue.
To be able to argue does require an argument we can examine: this is what we are lacking here. Presently there is nothing of substance and nothing to be wrong about (as you understand very well).
Last edited by JustinHorton on Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2965
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:11 pm

"Questions relating to the appointment process (and what happened when) should, in my opinion, be directed at the ECF officials who oversaw that process, not at those who applied for the position."

I agree.

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:48 pm

The bone of contention here appears to be the date of the `Credo`. Is it not possible that Carl Portman submitted the document at his interview to show how he would get the ball rolling should he be appointed and after being successful the document became official. If he hadn't been selected for the role it could have simply gone in the bin.

I can understand Tim's anger about the process, particularly as it follows so closely after the confusion over the junior directorate vacancy last year but I'm not sure anything is actionable. I don't see anything in his post that could be considered a slight on Carl as the successful candidate and Carl's jibe as to what Tim Wall does for chess is somewhat uncalled for; I know Tim slightly through mutual friends and while we don't agree on everything he is an experienced and active organiser and will no doubt continue to be.

Personally I would like to be able to move on from this as quickly as possible and for the ECF and Carl Portman to put hard strategies to develop chess in place.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Angus French
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Angus French » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:22 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:48 pm
... Is it not possible that Carl Portman submitted the document at his interview...
Given the text starts "I am delighted to have taken up the post of the Development Officer for the English Chess Federation..." that would have been forward, no?

I wonder if "September" was typed, maybe at the end of September or the start of October, when "October" was meant? Possibly it's significant that 13 October (rather than 13 September) is the day after the AGM.

Also, there is a complaints procedure and the Governance Committee play no part in it.

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:05 pm

Angus French wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:22 pm

Given the text starts "I am delighted to have taken up the post of the Development Officer for the English Chess Federation..." that would have been forward, no?
Not necessarily, if it was understood that the document wouldn't be published if he was unsuccessful and even it was it would just be completely irrelevant.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Chris Goodall » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:18 pm

Well, that was a great start.
Carl Portman wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:39 am
If people want to snipe from the wings I say this. Get in the ring. What are you doing to promote our game? It is so easy to criticise. It takes no skill, and very little effort.
There are two kinds of chess organiser. The mystifiers, and the demystifiers. The kind who want their job to look difficult, and the kind who want it to look easy.

If you make your job look too easy, you'll never be a "professional" (or "unemployed person" as they're known among the unchessed). If you make it look too difficult, you'll never get any more volunteers coming forward, which will leave you doing more of the work, and so on in a vicious cycle that is great for your ego and your bank balance, but is the opposite of "developing chess".

I'd hoped that the unsuccessful candidacy of Tim "volunteers are inward-looking and resistant to change" Wall meant that the ECF had found someone more of the "demystify" school of thought. Apparently not.

"What are YOU doing to promote our game, eh?" is a great virtue-signal, and is also exactly why no-one bothers promoting our game. Yes, you're probably a strong favourite in a chess-promoting contest when you're literally being paid to promote chess. That is not an achievement.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

John Moore
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:33 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by John Moore » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Is it me or does Carl Portman's stuff sound a lot like Charlie Storey. By the way, that is not necessarily a criticism.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Chris Goodall » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:40 pm

John Moore wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:58 pm
Is it me or does Carl Portman's stuff sound a lot like Charlie Storey. By the way, that is not necessarily a criticism.
It's better English, but there is the same note of menace. "My chess CV is bigger than yours, so you'll give me some respect or we can sort it out face to face."
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:05 pm

I don't intend to get involved in the personal stuff but agree that it seems a reasonable question, to which there may or may not be a reasonable answer, to enquire why the acceptance letter apparently pre-dated the appointment. That question doesn't seem to have been answered.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6442
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:15 pm

I am at least vaguely interested to know if it got answered on Saturday.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:07 pm

No explicit discussion on this point that I recall. We got a confirmation on the academy tender in this year's papers. You might want to set a diary memo for this time next year...

Brian Towers
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by Brian Towers » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:16 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:54 pm
Generally I am very pleased that the ECF have managed to get funding from the chess trust for a Development Officer
I think there is your answer.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Oh no! It looks like I've caught the aphorism bug from Carl!
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6442
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Development Officer appointment

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:54 am

You're supposed to attribute it to somebody though
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Post Reply