Vera Menchik

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John Upham
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Vera Menchik

Post by John Upham » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:47 am

I wonder if you can help ?

I'm attempting to locate the score of a game between Vera Menchk and Sir GA Thomas at Hastings , year unknown.

Getty images has this image :
2e90a458ba01104ee800eb4de989bfab.jpg
which appears to show a position in which Black is about deliver mate in one.

As far as I can tell this is the position :
Pos3.jpg
but I cannot locate this game from Megabase 2020.

I have 17 games in which Menchik is White against Thomas but none of them appear to be the above.

Anyone have an idea ?
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Leonard Barden
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Leonard Barden » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:17 pm

I would assume this is the usual posed pic taken in advance of the first round, and Vera or somebody else decided to play a little joke by setting up an obviously unreal position to deceive innocent future chess editors.

Note that besides the unreal clock times (I think they were normally set to start at noon for a 2 flagfall, Hastings time limit 36 moves in two hours) there is a score sheet carelessly half -way across the board. Vera has her hat on and her gloves by her side as if she has just arrived after doing her shopping. Also there is a captured black pawn on Black's side of the board.

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John Upham
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by John Upham » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:35 pm

Thanks Leonard.

I fell into the trap hook, line and sinker !

The signs were all there as you point out.
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John McKenna

Re: Vera Menchik

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pm

Just so you know - the WR in the photo is on f1 and not on d1 as in the diag.

E Michael White
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by E Michael White » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:00 pm

Both clocks appear to me to be stopped, adding to Leonard's theory.

John McKenna

Re: Vera Menchik

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:31 pm

That still leaves open to question when and where the photo was taken -

The last time Menchik,VF-Thomas,GA was seen at Hastings in the main event was in 1936(/7) and Sir George did win it, but not in the way shown in the photo. Vera never played again in the main Hastings event after that, but Sir George played in 1937/8 & 1938/9.

In the photo Vera seems to be wearing a ring.

In 1937, at the age of 31, Vera Menchik married.

Therefore the photo would seem to have most probably been taken in the time period beginning 1937 and the end of 1939.

Is it possible the photo was taken at one of the Margate events held in 1937, 1938 & 1939 where they continued to meet otb? (Again, the position in the photo does not match any of the 3 games they played there.)

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John Upham
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by John Upham » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:16 am

See https://britishchessnews.com/2020/06/27 ... niversary/ which includes a curiously worded obituary from EGR Cordingley.


Was she really a pagan or was this a turn of phrase from EGRC ?
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:02 pm

"Was she really a pagan or was this a turn of phrase from EGRC "

I would guess the latter - she possibly didn't attend church every week, which was the custom then, and some would find that shocking!

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:38 pm

Harry Golmbek told me he had few problems handling Vera.

The late Eline Pritchard told me she remembered sitting on Vera's k nee when a child.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Simon Rogers » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:37 pm

Forgive me for asking, as I don't know much about Vera Menchik.
Is it true that Vera was killed during World War 2 ?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:03 pm

Yes, by a V1 bomb towards the end of the war. Her mother and sister (also a decent player) were killed as well.
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James Pratt
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by James Pratt » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:57 pm

The Menchik biography by Tanner (2016) lists 29 games between Vera and Sir Geo. The Baronet emerges with dishonours +10 -6 =13.

Paige (2005) gives 22 games only betwixt the duo in his biography of Sir George.

In view of what Leonard writes further delving seems unnecessary.

James

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:57 am

It is possible the board is the leftovers from analysis. Botvinnik - Thomas, Nottingham 1936.



Vera was there playing in the Major Open Section 'B' https://www.saund.co.uk/britbase/pgn/1 ... iewer.html

(the following picture is from Edward Winter's site) https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/ex ... ngham.html

Image

As Leonard suggests, Vera popped into the hall, (though not fresh from shopping, the 22nd August was a Saturday when the shops
in Nottingham closed at midday.) some photographer chappie took out his Kodak, and asked Vera to sit at the board.

Leonard Barden
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Leonard Barden » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:01 pm

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/ne ... /549023489

The above link is to the Getty Images original, where details in the column on the right include
Date created 30 December 1937 so we can safely conclude the pic was taken at Hastings, even though Vera was not playing that year.

The steps in the background leading up to the White Rock Pavilion stage where the arbiters sat, with the five Premier games immediately in front of the stage, are familiar to me, since there was no handrail and I and others tripped more than once on the way up.

It remains obscure why Thomas is named. Geoff Chandler's Botvinnik v Thomas game does have a similar pawn structure, but the pic shows a black Nd8 whereas the Nottingham game lasted 69 moves and both black knights had been captured by move 22.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Vera Menchik

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:45 pm

I spotted the extra Knight and was recalling some of my after game analysis sessions.
You sat there playing with a piece, at the end put it randomly on the board and go away.
I was struck with the Sir George Thomas link in the opening post and the Botvinnik game.

I did not really believe it and your knowledge of Hastings and the steps trumps everything.

The good news is it got re-acquainted with the game and the amusing ending.

Botvinnik - Thomas, Nottingham 1936 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008255

White to play.



Have spent a lot of lock in time playing over pre-WWII games, especially Tarrasch.
This thread had me looking at the Nottingham 1936 games again. Thank you all.