ECF finance meeting 2024

[John Townsend]

I was slightly surprised by Roger L's comment that comparison with costs of other hobbies should be a separate matter, and perhaps not everyone would agree with him. John U. asked me questions about two of my recent hobbies, but chess seems to compare the least favourably with the third one, bridge.

Having returned to regular duplicate bridge last year after an absence of thirty years, I was happy to find the sub at my local club was just £8, and, thereafter, each session is charged at £1.50. The round trip for me is about eight miles.

I am a member of the national union, the English Bridge Union, at no extra cost. This is similar to the arrangement concerning my former membership of the Lawn Tennis Association, which I mentioned above.

Question: If membership of the national organisations for tennis and bridge is conferred at no extra cost, why is there a charge for the ECF?

[Roger de Coverly]

Question: If membership of the national organisations for tennis and bridge is conferred at no extra cost, why is there a charge for the ECF?

The answer is that the EBU introduced a ystem whereby the more Bridge you play, the more you pay via the Bridge clubs into the EBU's coffers. At around the same time, the ECF at the prompting of some load mouthed organisers went the opposite way in the direction of a per head membership where the people who played a hundred or more games a season paid the same to the ECF as those who played a handful.

Did I mention the false claim that individual membership was a FIDE rating requirement?

[Ian Thompson]

Question: If membership of the national organisations for tennis and bridge is conferred at no extra cost, why is there a charge for the ECF?

In respect of the LTA, the ECF has no equivalent of the Wimbledon Championships which, according to the LTA's latest accounts, generated it a gross profit of over £43M.

[John Townsend]

Thanks for explaining that, Roger de C.. Paying according to how much you play would certainly be a fairer arrangement and, presumably, it would result in many more players entering the game, which I believe, personally, needs to happen before we can become a top chess nation again.

The present system sounds more akin to a poll tax, and it is surprising that it has been allowed to happen. Perhaps it is not too late to move to an arrangement similar to the bridge one which seems to work well?

[Mick Norris]

Report from Doncaster Congress rep

[John Upham]

Report from Doncaster Congress rep

Thanks to you and Steve for the report Mick.

[John Reyes]

Chess is not a cheap hobby these days, if you take into account club membership, travel to and from matches and congresses, congress entry fees, hotel expenses - and, of course, the ECF.

I reckon it compares unfavourably with other hobbies I have pursued in recent years, including tennis, bridge, and chess historical research.

How chess compares, cost-wise, against other activities is (although not uninteresting) a separate matter. I think John's list just supports the notion that the odd £2 more or less on ECF fees is, for most chess players, a drop in the ocean.

I'm not sure it is a separate matter, if people are choosing between chess and bowls/tennis/bridge, but when my daughter was younger, most of the stuff she did (dancing, swimming, roller-skating, drama, rainbows/brownies/guides) was more expensive than chess, so I'm a bit surprised about John T's view on the alternatives

Back on topic, silver membership is currently £27 for adults, that's going up to £35, so the question is would the £8 increase put off a significant number of people from entering a congress? If so, would this be sufficient to affect the viability of congresses, as posed by John S?

I reckon for most people, congresses are an expense due to travel, and possibly accommodation, as well as entry fees, but I'm not sure that applies to an individual who might enter only their local congress once a year

Thanks Mick

the reason i proposal the £33 at the meeting as it is a 30% increased but also that going from £27 to £35 is a major increase for people to play congress and also we trying to get people to play chess.

I know we canvased the Silver members, but i know that i did asked the gold rep did they asked the gold members about the cost and they admitted they did not and was shocked about it as you would like to hear the views of the members to see if £33 was ok or £35 from £39.50.

[David Gilbert]

There was a lively debate about the increased fees. Ultimately the votes against the proposed £2 increases for the new Gold and for Bronze did not get anywhere enough support. Council (propped-up by one to two, or three members of the Board) were however successful in reinstating one-year free Bronze Membership for juniors and £6 thereafter, with non-member game fee for juniors set at £6. That all seemed very sensible even though the vote 98-88 was close.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned on this thread is that the articles of association were amended to allow the Board to apply the new membership rates in any year up to two months before 1 September. So if anyone was thinking of joining or renewing early so save a few quid I suspect the Board to set the new fees from 1 July 2024.

[GrahamStuart]

Report from Doncaster Congress rep

Many thanks for posting the summary. In addition, I was unaware that both Southampton and Portsmouth received the £2500 grant and Havant £5000 for Chess in the Park and I don't think we have seen anything on this yet. But if anyone is aware of these in these locations.....

As these don't include chess sets I am sure these can be supplied by Hampshire, Southampton or Portsmouth Chess Associations.

[John Reyes]

There was a lively debate about the increased fees. Ultimately the votes against the proposed £2 increases for the new Gold and for Bronze did not get anywhere enough support. Council (propped-up by one to two, or three members of the Board) were however successful in reinstating one-year free Bronze Membership for juniors and £6 thereafter, with non-member game fee for juniors set at £6. That all seemed very sensible even though the vote 98-88 was close.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned on this thread is that the articles of association were amended to allow the Board to apply the new membership rates in any year up to two months before 1 September. So if anyone was thinking of joining or renewing early so save a few quid I suspect the Board to set the new fees from 1 July 2024.

i was surprise that people did not support the new gold to be £33 and i did notice someone from the board saying it was only £2.

the reason is that and people from the board don't see it. if you a silver member, you jump from £27 quid to £35 quid, which is £8 but also for the pay to play would be £13. i would be interested to see how many silver members will increased to gold as you was paying an extra £9 and now you going to be paying £15 extra

[Tim Spanton]

There was a lively debate about the increased fees. Ultimately the votes against the proposed £2 increases for the new Gold and for Bronze did not get anywhere enough support. Council (propped-up by one to two, or three members of the Board) were however successful in reinstating one-year free Bronze Membership for juniors and £6 thereafter, with non-member game fee for juniors set at £6. That all seemed very sensible even though the vote 98-88 was close.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned on this thread is that the articles of association were amended to allow the Board to apply the new membership rates in any year up to two months before 1 September. So if anyone was thinking of joining or renewing early so save a few quid I suspect the Board to set the new fees from 1 July 2024.

i was surprise that people did not support the new gold to be £33 and i did notice someone from the board saying it was only £2.

the reason is that and people from the board don't see it. if you a silver member, you jump from £27 quid to £35 quid, which is £8 but also for the pay to play would be £13. i would be interested to see how many silver members will increased to gold as you was paying an extra £9 and now you going to be paying £15 extra

It should be remembered that some people only play during the normal league-season, ie October to May, so for them an £8 increase works out at £1 a month rather than 67p a month if playing for the whole year.

[John Reyes]

There was a lively debate about the increased fees. Ultimately the votes against the proposed £2 increases for the new Gold and for Bronze did not get anywhere enough support. Council (propped-up by one to two, or three members of the Board) were however successful in reinstating one-year free Bronze Membership for juniors and £6 thereafter, with non-member game fee for juniors set at £6. That all seemed very sensible even though the vote 98-88 was close.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned on this thread is that the articles of association were amended to allow the Board to apply the new membership rates in any year up to two months before 1 September. So if anyone was thinking of joining or renewing early so save a few quid I suspect the Board to set the new fees from 1 July 2024.

i was surprise that people did not support the new gold to be £33 and i did notice someone from the board saying it was only £2.

the reason is that and people from the board don't see it. if you a silver member, you jump from £27 quid to £35 quid, which is £8 but also for the pay to play would be £13. i would be interested to see how many silver members will increased to gold as you was paying an extra £9 and now you going to be paying £15 extra

It should be remembered that some people only play during the normal league-season, ie October to May, so for them an £8 increase works out at £1 a month rather than 67p a month if playing for the whole year.

but put the hat on the club member who paid £20 to be a bronze member. but they wanted to play a local congress like manchester sumner chess congress it will now cost you £15 Extra on top of the entries fee due to play the game fee or you just upgraded your membership.

some people just play the one congress, but also you have to make chess affordable

[Roger de Coverly]

but they wanted to play a local congress like manchester sumner chess congress it will now cost you £15 Extra on top of the entries fee due to play the game fee or you just upgraded your membership.

some people just play the one congress, but also you have to make chess affordable

I checked the entry conditions for the Witney Rapidplay in September.
https://www.witneychess.co.uk/witneyrapid24_t&cs.htm
Entry appears to be a mere £ 10 until you read the small print in the "Terms and Conditions" which says

There are additional pay to play fee £15.00 Open/£3.00 Junior Major for non-ECF members or Bronze-level ECF members.

By contrast in the days of Game Fee, I don't think the amount payable to the ECF would have been more than £ 1 per head (given that rapidplay had reduced rates). Chess Prevention Tax anyone?

Another local rapidplay tournament in September sets the entry fee at £ 25 but is a closed shop allowing only Silver members and above to enter. (Perhaps they will reword this).
https://camberleychess.co.uk/event/2024 ... ournament/

[Ian Thompson]

I checked the entry conditions for the Witney Rapidplay in September.
https://www.witneychess.co.uk/witneyrapid24_t&cs.htm
Entry appears to be a mere £ 10 until you read the small print in the "Terms and Conditions" which says

There are additional pay to play fee £15.00 Open/£3.00 Junior Major for non-ECF members or Bronze-level ECF members.

You can also read that in the large print which says:

"Entry Fee: £10.00. Additional pay to play fee £15.00 Open/£3.00 Junior Major for non-ECF members or Bronze-level ECF members."

[John Reyes]

i'm waiting to see the figures in October