Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:50 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:36 pm
I don't blame Nepo for not answering publicly but that doesn't prevent him reporting his suspicions privately to FIDE
I think that's my point.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:59 pm

Are there currently players cheating over-the-board in chess? How can organizers combat this?

...
How can we fight cheating? The cheaters can probably be held at bay by the fear of financial implications. For example, imposing fines in the amount of the first prize of the competition where the cheater is caught.

Does he explain how he imagines these fines will be enforced?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:59 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:59 pm
Does he explain how he imagines these fines will be enforced?
Perhaps something was lost in translation. It would be accepted that if a player was detected using external assistance ie a phone or computer, during one game, it would be assumed that applied to all games in that tournament. The score therefore would be cancelled, thus forfeiting any prize money.

Publicity, the threat of being named and shamed, ought to be a deterrent. I'm aware though of a German IM who arguably was caught red-handed and got off on a technicality is involved in the promotion of a popular series of holiday tournaments,

John Swain
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Swain » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:35 am

The following is reported in the minutes of the Chess Arbiters Association AGM in the latest edition of Arbiting Matters Too (issue 39):

"the FIDE Ethics Commission has returned the resolution of the case resulting from a 4NCL Congress to the ECF. The ECF will now have to consider forming a group to deal with the matter and any similar cases. As has been reported here previously, FIDE would be swamped with similar cases and so has required national federations to deal with such incidents and inform FIDE of the outcome."

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:40 pm

John Swain wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:35 am
The following is reported in the minutes of the Chess Arbiters Association AGM in the latest edition of Arbiting Matters Too (issue 39):

"the FIDE Ethics Commission has returned the resolution of the case resulting from a 4NCL Congress to the ECF. The ECF will now have to consider forming a group to deal with the matter and any similar cases. As has been reported here previously, FIDE would be swamped with similar cases and so has required national federations to deal with such incidents and inform FIDE of the outcome."
Interesting, I thought the CAA AGM was inquorate? I didn't expect to see minutes of it.

In any case, if that was reported then it is unfortunate that it contains at one obvious error, and another point might be best described as not entirely accurate.
Last edited by Alex Holowczak on Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John Swain
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Swain » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:18 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:40 pm
John Swain wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:35 am
The following is reported in the minutes of the Chess Arbiters Association AGM in the latest edition of Arbiting Matters Too (issue 39):

"the FIDE Ethics Commission has returned the resolution of the case resulting from a 4NCL Congress to the ECF. The ECF will now have to consider forming a group to deal with the matter and any similar cases. As has been reported here previously, FIDE would be swamped with similar cases and so has required national federations to deal with such incidents and inform FIDE of the outcome."
Interesting, I thought the CAA AGM was inquorate? I didn't expect to see minutes of it.

In any case, if that was reported then it is unfortunate that it contains at one obvious error, and another point might be best described not entirely accurate.
Arbiting Matters Too issue 39 does indeed report that the Chess Arbiters Association AGM did not have a quorum, with only five members in attendance. The quotation above is preceded by "There followed some discussion on various arbiter related topics. The main points of interest were …"
Not being one of the five, I can't elaborate any further.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:15 pm

Fines?

If the prizes involved are large, and the evidence strong and readily understood by a non-technical audience, then pass the matter onto the police and the public prosecutor. A prison sentence for fraud (or whatever the current legal name is for financial gain by deception) ought to discourage cheaters motivated by money, if not those motivated by false glory.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:17 pm

But otherwise, I have to agree with Nick Faulks. Too much loose talk. First provide proof, then talk, don't just yap away without evidence, because you are prone to conspiracy theories, and/or you once lost a rotten game to a "weak" 2300 or 1500 player or whatever level it is that your fragile ego can't handle.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:54 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:17 pm
First provide proof, then talk
The 4NCL case which was handed to the FIDE Ethics Commission was a junior player rumoured to have been detected to be in possession of a smart watch with accomplices feeding moves. That he was leading the tournament with a nearly 100% score and a high level of engine matching was also observed.

In practice, like Rausis, I don't think he has played since, thus saving the ECF, clubs, counties and Congresses the problem of whether they could enforce a ban and if so, for how long.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:54 pm
The 4NCL case which was handed to the FIDE Ethics Commission
Which 4NCL case was this?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:41 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 am
Which 4NCL case was this?
The 2018 Telford 4NCL Congress Minor Section.

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:41 am
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 am
Which 4NCL case was this?
The 2018 Telford 4NCL Congress Minor Section.
It appears that case was sent to the FIDE Fair Play Commission not the Ethics Commission.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:46 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am
It appears that case was sent to the FIDE Fair Play Commission not the Ethics Commission.
Isn't that the one the CAA are referring to? It's not beyond the possibility that "Fair Play" passed it on to "Ethics" who have just returned it to the ECF.

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:00 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:46 am
Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am
It appears that case was sent to the FIDE Fair Play Commission not the Ethics Commission.
Isn't that the one the CAA are referring to? It's not beyond the possibility that "Fair Play" passed it on to "Ethics" who have just returned it to the ECF.
It is possible though I failed to find any report on the case via the EC website or the FPC homepage on FB which look like both could do with some updates. As Alex wrote the 4NCL report but then responded to your post asking what 4NCL case this was I assumed he had no knowledge as to whether it had been passed on to the EC.
Unfortunately you have to be a member I guess to find out CAA's information source in issue 39 of Arbiting Matters Too.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 am

Maybe FIDE feel that 'minor' events are something that should be handled at national level, and only certain cases should be raised to the level of being handled by FIDE. But FIDE should be providing leadership on the issue.

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