London Chess Classic 2015

[Chris Rice]

Danny Gormally with his own unique views on the London Classic http://myweeklychessdiary.blogspot.co.u ... l?spref=tw

[David Williams]

Danny Gormally with his own unique views on the London Classic http://myweeklychessdiary.blogspot.co.u ... l?spref=tw

Carlsen is here this time, but his dismal form has continued . . .

[Matt Mackenzie]

Yet more sweeping "death of chess" hyperbole based on a single event, I see

(we last got this during Anand v Gelfand in 2012 - as the archives here will reveal; how did that turn out subsequently?)

Surely a pretty obvious reason for the underwhelming nature of this years event is that many were keeping stuff hidden pre-Candidates??

[Mick Norris]

Surely a pretty obvious reason for the underwhelming nature of this years event is that many were keeping stuff hidden pre-Candidates??

Yes, hopefully - it is the main event, and anything beforehand is a sideshow, however well remunerated, for those qualifying for the Candidates

Would be interesting to see if Svidler and Karjakin have learnt anything from watching the LCC

We next have Giri & Karjakin in Qatar; January has Svidler at Keres Memorial rapid, plus Caruana, Giri & Karjakin in Wijk then Anand & Nakamura in Gibraltar; Feb has Zurich rapid & blitz with Nakamura, Anand, Aronian & Giri

[Richard Bates]

It shouldn't need saying IMO, but this debate about the English wildcard is ridiculous. We have just had one of the strongest tournaments ever held on English soil and the English representative, who on accounts of rating could have expected to be targeted as pre-tournament cannon fodder, has comfortably held his own and not looked in serious danger of defeat. But apparently that is not enough and in future we should instead nominate somebody to have a better chance of losing most of their games to create a bit more "excitement" for the audience.

Until such time as Mickey is seriously challenged for the position as English no1 he has earned the right to be our representative and get first call on the limited opportunities that arise such as these and that should be the end of the matter.

[John McKenna]

It shouldn't need saying IMO, but this debate about the English wildcard is ridiculous. We have just had one of the strongest tournaments ever held on English soil and the English representative, who on accounts of rating could have expected to be targeted as pre-tournament cannon fodder, has comfortably held his own and not looked in serious danger of defeat. But apparently that is not enough and in future we should instead nominate somebody to have a better chance of losing most of their games to create a bit more "excitement" for the audience...

I mainly agree with what IM Richard Bates writes, above, but with respect to his last statement -

Until such time as Mickey is seriously challenged for the position as English no1 he has earned the right to be our representative and get first call on the limited opportunities that arise such as these and that should be the end of the matter.

I'd just ask - how can someone seriously challenge to become the English No. 1?

The British Championship is no longer the place to do that directly, and for a young British player to reach, say, a top-twenty place on the FIDE rating list is a tall order.

If the British Knockout Championship, which was just held in conjunction with the Grand Chess Tour London Classic event, could be used as the qualifier for the London 'wildcard' place, in future events, that would provide a more level playing field.

Of course, if that were to be viable super GM(s) Michael Adams (and Nigel Short) would have to be invited to play, and the British Knockout Ch. would have to be held a bit earlier than the main event.

[Roger de Coverly]

Of course, if that were to be viable super GM(s) Michael Adams (and Nigel Short) would have to be invited to play, and the British Knockout Ch. would have to be held a bit earlier than the main event.

Nigel has arguably retired from competing at the highest level. Aside from Adams, the only other plausible competitors are McShane, Sadler and Howell. Even those three might struggle to avoid being "Mister Victim" against the line up as seen in the 2015 London Chess Classic.

[John McKenna]

Roger, I suppose the point you could covertly be making, above, is that since the days when Luke, Matthew and David were transported (with parental support) around the British chess scene, to great effect, we have not really seen their like, again.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"It shouldn't need saying IMO, but this debate about the English wildcard is ridiculous. (etc)"

Yes - totally agree

[Jonathan Bryant]

I mainly agree with what IM Richard Bates writes, above, but with respect to his last statement -

Until such time as Mickey is seriously challenged for the position as English no1 he has earned the right to be our representative and get first call on the limited opportunities that arise such as these and that should be the end of the matter.

I'd just ask - how can someone seriously challenge to become the English No. 1?

... for a young British player to reach, say, a top-twenty place on the FIDE rating list is a tall order.

Haven’t you answered your own question? You become the English number 1 when you establish an elo rating which is consistently above the current highest Elo rated English chesser.

It’s not that difficult a concept is it? Obviously we could argue the toss about whether popping above Adams for a few weeks on the live list would count (I would say not) or whether you have to be above Adams for a calendar year to usurp him (I would say not), but elo rating is clearly the way you measure this.

[NickFaulks]

"It shouldn't need saying IMO, but this debate about the English wildcard is ridiculous. (etc)"

Yes - totally agree

Absolutely, obviously true. And yet, I cannot forget Luke being pitchforked into the absurdly strong Tal Memorial and making +3 =2 -4. having started with two potentially demoralising losses. As a simple English chess fan, I confess that this got me more excited than Mickey's objectively excellent nine draws.

[MartinCarpenter]

Well, if Luke had been playing full time he quite likely would have taken over by now. But he isn't so..... Sadler would have been possible too I guess but again.

Using the British K/O as a qualifying event for the wild card would make potential sense. They'd have to change format somewhat though. 8+ days of tough chess immediately before such a tough tournament wouldn't be precisely calculated to help the eventual qualifier perform in the main event!

[John McKenna]

I mainly agree with what IM Richard Bates writes, above, but with respect to his last statement -

Until such time as Mickey is seriously challenged for the position as English no1 he has earned the right to be our representative and get first call on the limited opportunities that arise such as these and that should be the end of the matter.

I'd just ask - how can someone seriously challenge to become the English No. 1?

... for a young British player to reach, say, a top-twenty place on the FIDE rating list is a tall order.

Haven’t you answered your own question? You become the English number 1 when you establish an elo rating which is consistently above the current highest Elo rated English chesser.

It’s not that difficult a concept is it? Obviously we could argue the toss about whether popping above Adams for a few weeks on the live list would count (I would say not) or whether you have to be above Adams for a calendar year to usurp him (I would say not), but elo rating is clearly the way you measure this.

I don't believe that anyone has fully answered my question, including me, Jonathan.

If you think about it, Michael Adams has an inbuilt rating advantage over all other British players at present due to serial invitations to top events. Of course, he must continue to perform at that level, which to his credit he invariably does, in order to keep the invitations coming.

Now think about his domestic rivals - how are they going to get their rating up to his level? The very best of them McShane, Sadler and Howell have all fallen short, so far, in various ways after their own fashion. One of them may yet succeed in replacing Michael as No. 1, but I doubt even they (with the possible exception of David Howell) will be able to displace him. He will eventually descend to their level as Nigel Short has done.

That's why I said that it would be a tall order for another home-grown player to get above Michael Adams on the FIDE rating list, at present. I suppose we could always try adopting a Chinese prodigy, so that when Michael steps down there will be someone to take his place as British No. 1 who can perform at the very top level.

"It shouldn't need saying IMO, but this debate about the English wildcard is ridiculous. (etc)"

Yes - totally agree

Absolutely, obviously true. And yet, I cannot forget Luke being pitchforked into the absurdly strong Tal Memorial and making +3 =2 -4. having started with two potentially demoralising losses. As a simple English chess fan, I confess that this got me more excited than Mickey's objectively excellent nine draws.

I admire the way that not only Michael and Luke play but also the way Matthew Sadler, David Howell and Nigel Short play. They are the leaders of a kind of semi-unofficial and unsystematic English Chess School that produced finalists for the both the FIDE Classic World Ch. (Nigel Short) and the FIDE KO World Ch. (Michael Adams).

(Don't forget the Olympiad and European medal-winning teams, too)

That was quite an achievement on the part of all involved in the various competitions.

Well, if Luke had been playing full time he quite likely would have taken over by now. But he isn't so..... Sadler would have been possible too I guess but again.

Using the British K/O as a qualifying event for the wild card would make potential sense. They'd have to change format somewhat though. 8+ days of tough chess immediately before such a tough tournament wouldn't be precisely calculated to help the eventual qualifier perform in the main event!

I do think that Luke and or Matthew could have gone for the top but they decided to go semi-pro rather than devote themselves entirely to chess, like Michael and Nigel.

We may have to accept that it will be some time before those achievements can be emulated and bask in the glory of the setting sons of English chess. Unless David Howell continues his climb and attempts the summit before needing to get a career.

And, finally, GM Gawain Jones is waiting in the wings and may yet make a challenge based on his 2012 Classic debut -

http://en.chessbase.com/post/lcc-r9-car ... h-big-wins

[Jonathan Bryant]

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one John. In particular, I don’t find this premise ...

If you think about it, Michael Adams has an inbuilt rating advantage over all other British players at present due to serial invitations to top events.

... at all convincing. Of course if you could cite times when the other English guys - Howell, Jones et al - have out-performed or match-performed Micky in a tournament or demonstrate results that would indicate that they are likely to be able to score 50% in an elite event I’d be happy to change my mind.

FWIW, I’m prepared to believe that McShane might well have usurped Adams by now had he been a full-time pro rather than spending time working in other fields. However, that’s a bit like pondering whether I would have reached 200 ECF if I’d worked really hard (or at all) instead of dicking around these past 20 years. Maybe so, maybe not. The key point in both McShane’s case and mine is that we didn’t.

[Mick Norris]

The Classics have been tough e.g. looking at when more than just Mickey have played (albeit this is historical and not necessarily relevant to 2016 say)

2009: Adams/Howell +1 =6 McShane +2 =1 -4
2010: McShane +2 =5 Adams +1 =5 -1 Howell =4 -3
2011: McShane +3 =4 -1 Adams =3 -5
2012: Adams +3 =4 -1 McShane +1 =2 -5 Jones =3 -5

with apologies to Nigel for missing out his results, and acknowledgement that anyone can have a bad event

Luke is very capable as he showed in the Super Rapidplay, but it does depend on how much time he can spend on chess - David is much better than he was 5 years ago, and may be able to break through to elite level - Gawain has had a few setbacks, but will hopefully recover - Mickey remains number 1 and the only one guaranteed to survive at elite level