Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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Michael Flatt
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by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:12 pm
Michael Farthing wrote:
Michael,
Firstly, there is a slight hint in the title of what you quote that would limit the authority of the document. it is the word 'Recommendation'
Secondly, the quoted law does not make mention of a phone ringing (it concerns itself with a phone being in the playing venue) and it does not say that the game must be lost. Indeed, it specifically says that a lesser penalty may be imposed.
Independently, Roger has indentified Laws 12.8 & 12.9.
The consensus of Arbiters and regular congress players, ie established common practice, is that a sound from a mobile phone/electronic device loses the game. This situation is adequately covered by the Laws of Chess.
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Michael Farthing
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by Michael Farthing » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:16 pm
It may be common practice: indeed that was my original complaint. 'Common practice' does not make something compulsory - which is what is being discussed.
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Brian Towers
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by Brian Towers » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:25 pm
Michael Farthing wrote:It may be common practice: indeed that was my original complaint. 'Common practice' does not make something compulsory - which is what is being discussed.
Well, it depends just how common "common practice" is. Common sense is often uncommon but does seem to apply in the
Northumberland Chess League whose rules state this:
Northumberland Chess League Rules wrote:13. Any player whose electronic communication device emits a sound, or vibrates, more than once during a game, shall lose their game by default. After the first such incident, it is the responsibility of the team captain to request that their player switch the device off. Players must not receive material assistance in their game through such means, and any player suspected of doing so may be reported to the League Conductor by the opposing team even if under this rule they are allowed to continue with the game.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
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Howard Grist
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by Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:29 pm
Mick Norris wrote:Has anyone actually analysed the results?
I append some data from the grading database.
Score includes byes with known results for Congresses. Results total only for non-Congress events.
Perf is grading performance in the event
Results is round by round results for congresses only. figures in parentheses indivcate byes ? indicates a bye with no known result (the grader omitted it when sending the results).
Code: Select all
Date Score Perf Results Event
05/01/2013 1/5 84 000(1)0 Shropshire Congress 2013 - Major U161
05/01/2013 0/1 107 0 Shropshire Congress 2013 - Open
18/01/2013 3½/5 133 ½½½11 e2e4.org.uk Chester Minor
25/01/2013 1/5 82 000(½)(½) e2e4 West Bromwich Major
02/02/2013 3/5 136 ½½110 Kidlington Chess Tournament 2013: U145
08/02/2013 4/5 138 111½½ e2e4.org.uk Torquay Minor
02/03/2013 4/5 144 1½11½ Warwickshire Minor (2013)
08/03/2013 1/5 79 (½)000½ e2e4.org.uk High Wycombe Open
16/03/2013 4/4 153 (?)1111 Castle Hereford Minor
29/03/2013 4/5 133 11011 Southend Congress
05/04/2013 1/4 69 (?)00½½ Bristol Spring Congress 2013
13/04/2013 4/5 132 1½½11 Staffordshire Congress: Minor
20/04/2013 1/5 90 00½0½ Nottingham Congress
26/04/2013 4/5 138 ½11½1 e2e4.org.uk Solihull ECF Sections
10/05/2013 1/5 55 (½)000½ e2e4.org.uk Nottingham non-FIDE
25/05/2013 4½/6 132 11101½ Cotswold Congress
01/06/2013 1½/5 69 0010½ EACU Congress 2013
07/06/2013 4/5 126 01111 South Lakes Minor II
29/06/2013 4½/5 143 11½11 Castle Potters Bar Minor
05/07/2013 ½/5 96 0000½ e2e4.org.uk Sunningdale Congress (July 2013)
20/07/2013 3½/5 146 ½1½½½ 5th Worcestershire Congress: Intermediate
02/08/2013 2½/5 100 ½10½½ British Championships 2013: Weekender Yates U125
05/08/2013 1½5 99 000½1 British Championships 2013: 5 Day Open PM Week 2
05/08/2013 4/5 137 11110 British Championships 2013: Under 120 Championship
17/08/2013 ½/4 72 000½ Jessie Gilbert Celebration International: Sections for All A
23/08/2013 2/7 74 (½)0001½0 e2e4.org.uk Coventry Congress U135
30/08/2013 ½/4 60 (?)000½ Manchester Autumn 2013 Knights
01/09/2013 12 124 Birmingham & District League (final)
01/09/2013 4 95 Worcestershire: Ball/Bennett Cups 2013-14
06/09/2013 ½/3 50 (½)00 Leek Congress 2013: Main C
21/09/2013 5/5 160 11111 Castle Dudley Minor
01/10/2013 1 160 MCCU Counties
19/10/2013 2/3 106 110 Witney Weekend Congress 2013: U120
25/10/2013 4½/5 151 11½11 Scarborough Congress
08/11/2013 2/5 94 1½00½ Preston Congress (2013): Standard (26th)
29/11/2013 1/5 65 (½)000½ Leicester (H.E. Atkins Memorial) Congress Major
21/12/2013 2½/5 91 ½0110 CCF Christmas Congress 2013: Under 125
28/12/2013 3½/4 141 11½1 Hastings International 2013/14: Christmas C
30/12/2013 3½/5 128 1½½½1 Hastings International 2013/14: New Year Afternoon C
30/12/2013 1/3 90 100 Hastings International 2013/14: New Year Morning C
03/01/2014 4/5 136 11½½1 Hastings International 2013/14: Weekend Under 120
01/02/2014 3½/5 139 1½1½1 Kidlington Chess Tournament 2014: U120
15/02/2014 7/7 128 (1)111111 UK Chess Academy 4th FIDE Congress: U110
22/02/2014 3½/5 123 1½101 Castle Dudley Minor
01/03/2014 4/5 135 ½11½1 Warwickshire U120
07/03/2014 0/1 51 0 Blackpool Conference: Filler Games (2014)
07/03/2014 1/5 97 000(1)0 Blackpool Conference: Open (2014)
14/03/2014 4½/5 144 (?)11½11 Castle Hereford Minor
29/03/2014 4/5 126 111½½ Nottingham Congress
26/04/2014 4 108 National Club 2014
09/05/2014 4½/5 143 1111½ Frome Congress Minor
13/06/2014 4/5 127 ½11½1 Bournemouth Grand Congress
21/06/2014 1/4 61 000(1) Heywood Congress: Antonin Weleminsky Minor
21/06/2014 0/1 63 0 Heywood Congress: Graded Filler Games (2014)
04/07/2014 4/5 145 111½½ Colwyn Bay Congress: Minor
12/07/2014 4½/5 147 111½1 Worcestershire Congress: Minor - Under 115
25/07/2014 4½/5 160 11½11 British Championship: Weekend U125: Yates
28/07/2014 3½/5 133 11½10 British Under 120 Championship
22/08/2014 2/4 116 (?)1100 Bristol Summer Congress: Minor
29/08/2014 1/5 74 (½)½000 Manchester Autumn 2014 Knights
01/09/2014 8 111 Birmingham & District League (final)
01/09/2014 1 89 Worcester and District League
06/09/2014 4½/5 156 (½)1111 CCF Late Summer LP Congress: u1700/u130
03/10/2014 ½/5 77 (½)0000 Hull Congress Inter
18/10/2014 2/5 93 00(½)½1 Witney Congress (2014): U-145 (2nd)
24/10/2014 1/5 102 01000 Scarborough Congress Minor
28/11/2014 1½/5 78 (½)00½½ Leicester Chess Congress Minor
20/12/2014 1½/5 91 (½)1000 CCF Christmas Congress: Under 1700
03/01/2015 3½/5 141 111½0 Shropshire Chess Congress 2015: Minor (U125)
30/01/2015 4/5 150 11011 4NCL Congress: Minor (1st)
20/02/2015 4/5 153 (½)111½ Bristol Winter Minor U125
13/03/2015 1½/5 118 (?)0½001 Castle Hereford Major U160
03/04/2015 ½/5 51 ½0000 CCF Easter LP Congress: u1700 / u130
11/04/2015 4 181 National club 2015
18/04/2015 4½/5 169 111½1 Nottingham Congress
15/05/2015 4½/5 151 111½1 Rhyl Congress 2015
23/05/2015 5½/6 151 111½11 Cotswold Congress
19/06/2015 4/5 168 (½)11½1 Bournemouth Grand Congress Intermediate (4th)
11/07/2015 4/5 167 (½)111½ Weald Chess Congress: Intermediate U140 (9th)
27/07/2015 1/5 78 01000 British Chess Championships: Under 140 (2015)
31/07/2015 5/5 165 11111 British Chess Championships: Weekend Yates (2015)
Former ECF Grading System Programmer
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:53 pm
Howard Grist wrote:
I append some data from the grading database.
If you run the same enquiry on rapid play events, I believe you would find just as many with a similar inconsistency of results.
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NickFaulks
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by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:03 pm
Tournament organisers have every right to take the view that mobile phones blasting out an Arctic Monkeys ringtone are a scourge of tournament chess and the culprit will be punished by loss of the game. What they should not do is insist that this is required by some imaginary FIDE rule and they are only doing it because Kirsan says they must.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
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Howard Grist
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by Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:06 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:If you run the same enquiry on rapid play events, I believe you would find just as many with a similar inconsistency of results.
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
I should also have mentioned that the above list is all Stephen Crockett's standard play events from 1/1/2013 to 31/7/2015.
Former ECF Grading System Programmer
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:30 pm
Howard Grist wrote:
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
I would recommend a second look at the 2014-15 Rapid performance.
Check Bolton and Bourne End for a contrast.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick Norris
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by Mick Norris » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:30 pm
2014/15 Rapidplays he scored 5, 5.5, 6 & 6 (presumably out of 6 in each case) at the 4 Rapidplays in the Midlands GP
2013/14 he scored 21 in 6 events
2012/13 he scored 4.5, 5, 3, 4 & 3
2011/12 he scored 4.5, 3.5, 5.5, 3.5, 4.5 and 1
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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David Sedgwick
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by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:31 pm
NickFaulks wrote:Tournament organisers have every right to take the view that mobile phones blasting out an Arctic Monkeys ringtone are a scourge of tournament chess and the culprit will be punished by loss of the game. What they should not do is insist that this is required by some imaginary FIDE rule and they are only doing it because Kirsan says they must.
It's a bit rich for you to describe the rule as imaginary. It's no longer a specific requirement of the Laws, but it was prior to 1st July 2014.
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Michael Flatt
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by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:44 pm
Howard Grist wrote:
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
Not in his last 8 events but look at the events immediately preceding those.
Bourne End (29/03/2015) is a curiousity.
0/4 for the rounds 1,2,3,5 against opponents graded below 129.
Round 4 Filler in Open. Win over Charlie B Nettleton ( 267573A ) Graded 174B
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NickFaulks
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by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:57 pm
David Sedgwick wrote:
It's a bit rich for you to describe the rule as imaginary. It's no longer a specific requirement of the Laws, but it was prior to 1st July 2014.
It's been imaginary for the past sixteen months, then. What is rich is that after FIDE relented and weakened the old rule under a torrent of complaints that it was too draconian, in particular from England, it turns out that the arbiters here actually liked the old rule and continue to use their discretion to enforce it.
If this discussion is to be continued, it is probably worthy of a separate thread!
Last edited by NickFaulks on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
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Alan Walton
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by Alan Walton » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:57 pm
There really should be a reviewing system within the ECF Grading heirarchy, to investigate sandbagging claims; and thus impose sanctions if proven guilty (obviously with safeguards if mitigating circumstance exist and are accepted)
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Howard Grist
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by Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:03 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote: Howard Grist wrote:
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
Howard Grist wrote:
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
I would recommend a second look at the 2014-15 Rapid performance.
Ah yes, apologies, you are right, you do indeed get a similar trend there. I was looking at Grand Prix scores which are halved for rapidplay events.
Former ECF Grading System Programmer
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:08 pm
Howard Grist wrote:
Ah yes, apologies, you are right, you do indeed get a similar trend there. I was looking at Grand Prix scores which are halved for rapidplay events.
Now there's a thought, look at the winner of the 2014-15 national Grand Prix in the 120-139 category.
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/ecf-grand-prix-14-15/
This season there's a monetary prize courtesy of Tradewise.