EU referendum aftermath

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Christopher Kreuzer
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EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:21 pm

A new thread on the aftermath of the EU referendum.

For starters:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

The petition about the turnout/threshold for the referendum. This petition was started before the vote (it was started on 24 May) and has since become a proxy way for people to protest about the result. Nearly 2 million signatures at the time of writing. Hopefully someone will actually start a new petition that, if properly presented, may have more legitimacy (i.e. not trying to move the goalposts after this referendum was held).

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:40 pm

Not as bad as London should declare independence comments?
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Joey Stewart
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Joey Stewart » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Imagine if they actually took this seriously, what an absurd precident it would set. Next general election labor party wins.... 1 million+ conservatives petition for a second try, win, then it is labour supporters turn again and nothing gets done while we act like petulant children.

It's done, majority won, that's the way a democracy works people - if you take out Scotland and northern Ireland votes it was actually a landslide
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:49 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:Imagine if they actually took this seriously, what an absurd precident it would set. Next general election labor party wins.... 1 million+ conservatives petition for a second try, win, then it is labour supporters turn again and nothing gets done while we act like petulant children.

It's done, majority won, that's the way a democracy works people - if you take out Scotland and northern Ireland votes it was actually a landslide
Um, you can't complain about 'moving the goalposts' (second referendum) and then start moving the goalposts yourself (taking out Scotland and Northern Ireland votes). The sane argument is one that focuses on the need for a clear majority threshold to be reached in votes of such import, not a narrow result.
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Joey Stewart » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:58 pm

I took out Ireland and Scotland on the basis that they are keen to leave the uk so their 'stay' votes would be leaving along with them and we would be left with England and Wales where there was a clear majority based on a very large turnout.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:09 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:I took out Ireland and Scotland on the basis that they are keen to leave the uk so their 'stay' votes would be leaving along with them and we would be left with England and Wales where there was a clear majority based on a very large turnout.
How did Northern Ireland become Ireland? And since when was Northern Ireland keen to leave the UK?

I accept that in England and Wales there was a majority in favour of leaving the EU. It was 53.4% Leave overall in England and 52.5% Leave in Wales. Though, if you are going to dissect things like this, where do you stop? Why not take out Cardiff and London as well?

Anyway, this thread should be on the aftermath. I probably started it off on the wrong track with the petition link...
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeterFarr
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by PeterFarr » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:11 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:I took out Ireland and Scotland on the basis that they are keen to leave the uk so their 'stay' votes would be leaving along with them.
They aren't.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:18 pm

Petition has reached 2.2 million signatures. I wonder how high that could go (it should in theory stay up for another 5 months). Around 17 million signatures would be the target, but I would say unlikely to go above 5 million (though that would still be a massive number). As Nick would say, it is all a conspiracy, though...

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:20 pm

It is still possible that parliament could refuse to act on the results of this referendum. I'm not sure it's very likely, but it's possible.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:47 pm

Alastair Campbell in the International Business Times:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/boris-johnson- ... us-1567413

"Many are now saying we all need to pull together and make this work. I am not sure I agree. The country has voted on a totally false prospectus for a decision that has dramatic and damaging consequences, many as yet unseen. As the reality of that sinks in, the anger will grow. I believe the recognition of the sheer scale of the error that has been made will grow. The demands for a second referendum will grow. Or for a general election where an unequivocally pro-EU case can be put by an unequivocally progressive party. Right now it is hard to see where that party is or who are the people who could lead it. But without it, this country is in trouble and staring at rapid decline."

Michael Flatt
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Michael Flatt » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:56 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:It is still possible that parliament could refuse to act on the results of this referendum. I'm not sure it's very likely, but it's possible.
The timing of Britain's exit may not be under the control of the UK Government. The other 27 member states may take matters into their own hands and trigger article 50 themselves. The UK Commissioner, Lord Hill, has already announced his resignation[1].

[1] EU referendum: UK's EU commissioner Lord Hill to resign: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36629646

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:03 pm

They cannot trigger Article 50. The legal argument so far goes that Cameron or the appropriate UK representative turning up and/or requesting negotiations to start in any way, may be seen as a 'notification' and hence an Article 50 starting process. This article talked about the irony that a new pro-Leave Conservative administration may end up appealing a premature EU-'triggered' Article 50 attempt to some European legal body... The irony.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:10 pm

Good article here, on the way London elites contributed to the result:

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/br ... on-problem

MartinCarpenter
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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:12 pm

PeterFarr wrote:
Joey Stewart wrote:I took out Ireland and Scotland on the basis that they are keen to leave the uk so their 'stay' votes would be leaving along with them.
They aren't.
They weren't - Scotland I think may well go this time, and honestly good luck to them. They've started preparing the ground.

I've no idea about the talk of NI joining up with Ireland instead of us, but its there. Might be a chance now I imagine.

London is of course insane, if rather amusing :)

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Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:20 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Alastair Campbell
Tony Blair's spin doctor? You've got be be joking.

edit : the Dissent one you linked to was good, so I suppose you're being fair.

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