'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

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Ian Lamb
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ian Lamb » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:56 pm

so far the turnover not been huge on the british championship compared to san sebastion when nakamura was playing and there was loads of bets then.there been so far just over 2 grand so nothing as near san sebastion.

Ian Thompson
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:56 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:Hi Matt, I contacted Betfair recently regarding their policy on betting on yourself,or betting on events in which you are directly involved.
The reply I received suggested,by implication,that it is acceptable to back yourself,but not to lay yourself.I presume this also means that you can lay other players but can't back them.
I didn't ask whether it is ok for a player to trade in order,for example,to create a balanced book,where for example they are winning 100 pounds irrespective of who wins.
If betting on the event is allowed at all, then surely betting to create a balanced book must be OK, because you no longer care who wins the event.

I would have thought that laying other players is questionable though, because you could end up benefiting from deliberately losing a game. For example, you have laid Player A. You are Player D, and the last round pairings are:

Player A (8 points) v Player B (7.5 points)
Player C (8 points) v Player D (7 points)

Players A and B have drawn their game. Your game is still in progress. You have an incentive to lose your game to Player C to stop Player A winning the event.
Last edited by Ian Thompson on Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben Purton
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:59 pm

might be alot of in running bets
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Ian Lamb
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ian Lamb » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:01 pm

are players alowed to bet on this event then when playing?

Matthew Turner
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Matthew Turner » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:17 pm

Ian (Thompson),
Sorry you are slightly missing what Keith is saying, he is talking about insuring his earnings, rather than balancing his betting book. Let's say Keith and Stuart Conquest are leading after round 11. They split the prize money and play off for the Championships. However, they could do a similar thing if they were leading after round 10, by laying themselves on betfair. The round 11 game would decide the Championship, but their overall earnings (prize money plus gambling would be assured). However, there are other benfits to winning the British Championships (selection for England, bigger fees for writing/coaching). Therefore a player may want to overlay themselves, so that in the short-term they would get more money from losing. This is entirely innocent and is no different to you buying life insurance (that doesn't mean you want to die!) however, it would look very suspicious to an onlooker.

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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Keith Arkell » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:01 am

Ian Thompson gives a very good example of why it is not a good idea for players in the tournament to get too involved,which,by the way,I stated in my introductory posting on this thread.

I'm a bit confused about what you're saying though Matt.What I am saying essentially is that it is not acceptable morally,or quite possibly legally(although,as you point out,the law may still be a bit ambiguous about these mattters), for a player to benefit financially on betfair from his or her failing to become British Champion,irrespective of what prizes he or she does or doesn't win.

O dear,round 1 pairings are posted,and I have got the short straw big time! Black v Jonathan Hawkins. Last year he drew with Flear,Gordon,me and Gormally,and scored 7/11 for a 2520 performance! :roll:

There were those,eg on the Streatham and Brixton forum,who used Jonathan's ridiculously low rating,and the fact that Trent,Ledger(2 Gm norms,and had just beaten GMs Flear and Hebden) and Gordon(now a strong GM) were 'only' Ims,to suggest that last year I somehow deserved to lose the speed chess play-off for the British title because I played a ''weaker field'';and then there were those who wrote that Stuart ''played the best chess''.Actually,Stuart really did play great,exciting chess;but I suspect that none of these people actually played through my games!The truth is that Stuart played the best chess...in the speed play off!
The beauty of a forum like this,is that people like me,who get downtrodden in the chess press,get a chance to tell things as they really are. :wink:

Well,before I start to feel too much like Steve davis,rushing off to do commentary between playing frames during the World Snooker Championship,I'd better go get some sleep and get ready to begin play!...

Ian Lamb
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ian Lamb » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:45 am

yes good luck Keith i said on another post that you had the toughest draw buy far in Round 1 Hawkins gained 93 rating points last year at the British and because he does not play many fide events his rating below what it should be. plays lot of weeknders though so still very sharp.hes at least 2400+ i would say.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:59 am

What rules do other sporting bodies have about the involvement of competitors in betting markets? My suspicion (though I'd be glad to be better informed) is that they may well consider it unacceptable. (It says at the end of this long piece that "players are only banned from betting on matches in which they take part or influence". I assume "influence" here means, for instance, last-day situations in which titles, promotion or relegation may depend on other people's results as wel las your own.)

I think you're probably asking for trouble if people bet on events in which they're taking part.
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:38 am

Since, as far as I know, only mind sports use the Swiss system, it is less likely that the situation will arise where one player's achievement affects another.
In the last round two friends meeting. Both will get a title norm if they draw. A win will not get either player a prize. Is it insider trading to bet on a draw, or is it just a logical assessment of the situation?
At least in Britain we do not use the Bucholz or Sonneborn-Berger Systems to decide prize money for players on the same score. They ensure that third parties affect the prizes of other players.
Stewart Reuben

Ian Lamb
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Re: 'Betfair' have set up a market on the British Ch!

Post by Ian Lamb » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:14 am

yes i agree Stewart the system in germany and france just favours the stronger player way to much .dont like it at all even though i play abroad quite a bit these days.

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