Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

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Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:05 am

John Hickman wrote:There's an interesting discussion on this down at the Chess Pub...

Pirc 4 Bg5: Best Lines/Move Orders
they suggest the worst of all possible worlds namely 5...h6 with 6...c6 not 6....g5 so that it is difficult to castle kingside because the h-pawn is so weak and black has weakened his pawn structure around a possible king position. That fails to a 0-0-0 line for sure which is not given. 5.Qd2 is best met by a quick lunge at the almost certainly castled queenside king for sure. the analysis is based on computers which in the case of the Pirc are highly fallible on both sides.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Llewellyn wrote:this is an example of what can go wrong


An engine suggests just taking the h5 pawn. While it looks a position in which there's sac, sac, mate as Fischer once said about the Dragon, I don't think it quite works.

In my view defenders in the Pirc have to have an aptitude for defending such positions. If Black doesn't castle, he's compromised in various other ways.
this is a case in point taking the h-pawn is suicide to a human its a well known 'mate in 20'.

Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:11 am

the position above, take with the knight and g4 comes followed by bh6 and we have a 150 attack full raging, and the pawn taking looks even less inviting after moves such as be2, castling into an attack seems highly dumb to me.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:23 am

Alan Llewellyn wrote:
John Hickman wrote:There's an interesting discussion on this down at the Chess Pub...

Pirc 4 Bg5: Best Lines/Move Orders
they suggest the worst of all possible worlds ....

John is a very decent club/tournament player who has decades of experience with the Pirc/Modern. If he suggested a resource about the opening to me I would listen to him.

Similarly, the chesspub forum contributors are generally strong players and/or guys who know a lot about opening theory. If there was a 7-page thread on a variation on which I was interested, I’m not sure I’d be dismissing it after less than two hours thought.

Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:26 am

It seems to me White is fully engaged in an attack on the g8 king before the king has even arrived, so why not feint at going Kingside but only go there if it is fully safe to do so castling long instead, and use the lack of a pawn on c4 (as in the Kings Indian) to your advantage gaining space on the queenside, and gain a valuable attack already in place. I think when computers solve chess they will see the Pirc if played right is a strong opening not a weak one.

John Upham
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Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by John Upham » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:27 am

Alan Llewellyn wrote:for example 1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 Bg5 Bg7 5 Qd2 c6 6 0-0-0 b5 7 h4 Kf8

As white I would recommend 7...Kf8 :lol:
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Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:38 am

John Upham wrote:
Alan Llewellyn wrote:for example 1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 Bg5 Bg7 5 Qd2 c6 6 0-0-0 b5 7 h4 Kf8

As white I would recommend 7...Kf8 :lol:
It was just a blind example without a board, in effect it was blindfold and was just a throw away position look at the rest of my analysis it is completely sound and thought provoking.

Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:40 am

The analysis in chesspublishing is suggested on the basis that white ignores his best attacking lines- my analysis takes on the refuting of the Pirc head on.

John Hickman
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Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by John Hickman » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:... I’m not sure I’d be dismissing it after less than two hours thought.
Although that's all it usually takes to beat me :mrgreen:

Alan Llewellyn

Re: Studying the Pirc, so how to play against the Byrne?

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:41 pm

a quote from the chesspublishing site, 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bg5 Bg7 5.Qd2 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.0-0-0 c6 8.f4 b5 9.e5 b4 10.exf6 bxc3 11.Qxc3 Bxf6 12.Bxf6 exf6 13.h3!?
might be a decent try for some edge. For example:
13...f5 14.g4 Qf6 15.Qd2 Re8
15...fxg4!? 16.hxg4 Bxg4 17.Be2 Bf5 18.Bf3 Looks like at least sufficient compensation.
16.g5 hxg5 17.fxg5 Qe6 18.b3

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