Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

The very latest International round up of English news.
NickFaulks
Posts: 5083
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:02 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:46 pm
I simply don't want to see a repeat of the 2016 match because I genuinely believe that a different challenger for Carlsen this time would produce more interesting chess.
I expect that is a widely held view, but should we be wishing for lots of exciting games, with Carlsen emerging comfortably as the winner, or a dour struggle with the match result in genuine doubt? I think the Champion should have to defend his title against the player with the best chance of beating him, and I think that player is Karjakin.

MJMcCready
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:36 pm

So you consider Karjakin to be a better match player or better from the last match? As viewers we should want exciting games rather than another 6 hour grind in a match that has a limited and rather dull opening repertoire.

As it stands Caruana has the best chance of beating Carlsen and plays some tactically sharp stuff also. Better that than another rendition of the Ruy Lopez marathon.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:49 pm

This was a sharp observation
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 5083
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:49 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:36 pm
As viewers we should want exciting games rather than another 6 hour grind in a match that has a limited and rather dull opening repertoire.
I don't agree. All year round in elite tournaments I want to see exciting games. Once every two years I want to see the World Champion challenged for his title by a challenger using the most effective weapons for that purpose. If this leads to chess that ordinary players find unexciting to watch that is perhaps a problem for the game, but not something the participants should have to worry about.

MJMcCready
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:55 pm

They should act, primarily, out of self-interest for sure. But hoping someone renowned for his defensive abilities makes it through is, I think, a sad reflection. The consensus overall was that the last match was dull, even the far from ordinary commentators were struggling at points. I take your point about the level of competitiveness but when the predictability of what lies ahead outranks that, I personally prefer a less competitive match with more action. I was, like so many, hoping that Aronian would make it through. I think Carlsen will be very comfortable with the prospect of another match against Karjakin and won't be at his best as a result.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5083
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:09 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:55 pm
I personally prefer a less competitive match with more action.
That is precisely where we disagree. I see the entertainment value of having a challenger served up to Carlsen like a mouse to a pet snake, but it is not my idea of a World Championship match.

Steven DuCharme
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:51 pm
Location: West Bend,WI USA

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Steven DuCharme » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:34 pm
So suddenly five are in contention and Ding is the only unbeaten player. He has White against Kramnik next, and finally Black against Karjakin.

Mamedyarov and Grischuk meet on Monday, both needing to win really.

I would expect So to draw with Karjakin and Caruana must somehow find a way to beat Aronian to avoid the negative tiebreak blues.

I had been planning to go to London to watch a round or two of the world championship match but if Karjakin is the challenger again I won't bother.
IMO you're wrong unless you're guaranteed to see another world title match in person. Please rethink your position. Thank you.
I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight :mrgreen:

MJMcCready
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:22 pm

I think what Tim is saying here is what many people think. The last match was bad enough. If Carlsen is not careful he'll go down as a rather uninspiring champion despite how truly great he is. It took me many years to get to the point where I could play through Petrosian's world championship games because he was labelled like that. It would be a shame if Carlsen is remembered for all the wrong reasons...

NickFaulks
Posts: 5083
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:27 pm

So we don't want Karjakin to be the challenger because he might win?

Nick Burrows
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:36 pm

The last match was awful. Thoroughly boring. I think most people want the strongest player to face Carlsen - and they are also hoping that it is not Karjakin. Still far from a foregone conclusion

MJMcCready
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:39 pm

Botvinnik was, in my opinion, the most correct of all about what made for a great world championship match. You can find the interview in the 25th Anniversary edition of New In Chess. When asked about the upcoming Karpov v Kasparov match he said that the most important thing for a great match was a clash of temperaments. With that in mind, another Karjakin match is the last thing the chess world wants.

MJMcCready
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:41 pm

Any Kramnik V Leko fans out there?

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:58 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:36 pm
The last match was awful. Thoroughly boring.
Well yes, apart from the aspect of the champion being behind in the match with time running out.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 2856
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:07 pm

It was better than Anand v Gelfand tbf (and even that one wasn't *totally* bad)

Mamedyarov hasn't been mentioned much in the above discussion, btw - I would expect Carlsen to beat him, but it might not be all one way.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:41 pm

I'd quite like Mamedyarov to qualify if only because I'm pretty sure I remember Carlsen doesn't rate him too highly and that might lend the match a bit of genuine needle.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Post Reply