2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

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NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:25 am

If September 15th passes without suitable assurances from the Saudis and the following week London or Sydney makes a proposal which they have been hatching ( including visas for all players, which I suspect would in practice rule out both ), are you seriously suggesting that FIDE would say sorry, we've decided not to do it this year?

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:44 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:25 am
If September 15th passes without suitable assurances from the Saudis and the following week London or Sydney makes a proposal which they have been hatching ( including visas for all players, which I suspect would in practice rule out both ), are you seriously suggesting that FIDE would say sorry, we've decided not to do it this year?
If London or Sydney made a request to stage it I don't doubt for a moment that FIDE would take it. I also don't doubt that they would also take it if Tehran or Qatar made a similar offer, from what I've seen that's how FIDE roll. However, it would have been just as easy for the statement to say that in the absence of the necessary assurances from the Saudis and if no other host could be found the event would be cancelled but it didn't.

Brian Towers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:09 am

2PB-2018/18. To approve that if there is no clear answer by 15th September that visas are provided to all, the recommendation to the GA will be that FIDE will not organise World Rapid and Blitz and World Women Rapid and Blitz this year
In October there will be a new FIDE President and what one Presidential Board passes another can reverse. I would wait 3 months before jumping to conclusions. FIDE will still need the money.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:36 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:25 am
If September 15th passes without suitable assurances from the Saudis and the following week London or Sydney makes a proposal which they have been hatching ( including visas for all players, which I suspect would in practice rule out both ), are you seriously suggesting that FIDE would say sorry, we've decided not to do it this year?
Nick, now you are clutching at straws. Agon/FIDE clearly said the event would be cancelled if Saudi did not host it - they have obviously not got a fallback bid. Why are you so reluctant to admit that this is simply poor form given how early the problem with Saudi was known? You are doing everything possible to play down a remarkable admission in the PB minutes that a major event is likely to be missing from this year's calendar.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 pm

Ian Rogers wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:36 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:25 am
If September 15th passes without suitable assurances from the Saudis and the following week London or Sydney makes a proposal which they have been hatching ( including visas for all players, which I suspect would in practice rule out both ), are you seriously suggesting that FIDE would say sorry, we've decided not to do it this year?
Nick, now you are clutching at straws. Agon/FIDE clearly said the event would be cancelled if Saudi did not host it - they have obviously not got a fallback bid. Why are you so reluctant to admit that this is simply poor form given how early the problem with Saudi was known? You are doing everything possible to play down a remarkable admission in the PB minutes that a major event is likely to be missing from this year's calendar.
I'm not sure why it is a remarkable admission. Until Saudi Arabia came along in 2017, the expectation was that the event was not going to be held because no one had bid to host it. I recall that during the complaints about Saudi Arabia being awarded it last year, as with the Women's World Championship in Iran, one defence was "There were no other bids." The more important question to my mind is, why is no one else bidding to host it?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:13 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 pm
I'm not sure why it is a remarkable admission.
Going back to the start of the thread, it was November 2017 when the event was announced. Agon and for that matter the notional FIDE President weren't involved.

Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Which body is responsible for organising the World Rapid and Blitz is a separate question. Agon supposedly have the commercial rights but have barely been involved since the fiasco of Berlin 2015. But surely somebody should be responsible for not foreseeing that the Saudi bid may fall through and making a fallback plan.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 pm
The more important question to my mind is, why is no one else bidding to host it?
Why isn't England? I expect money is an issue, particularly as assuming the Saudis do come through with visas they have raised the bar for the prize fund. As mentioned earlier, it also isn't clear to me that England could make the requisite visa promises.

I do see that Manchester has just hosted the 18th World Deaf Olympiad, which looks to have been an impressive event.

Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 am

The reason no one else was bidding for the 2018 World Rapid and Blitz is because Agon/FIDE were not looking for bids as they had the Saudi offer (covering 2019 as well). Yet Agon/FIDE knew there was a significant chance that holding the event in Saudi again would be impossible.
The only part of this situation that is to FIDE's credit is that they at least decided to cancel the event rather than hold it in a country which would exclude up to four countries from competing anyway.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:04 am

Ian Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 am
The reason no one else was bidding for the 2018 World Rapid and Blitz is because Agon/FIDE were not looking for bids as they had the Saudi offer (covering 2019 as well).
I got the impression that no one was bidding for it in 2018, and then the Saudis came along. Was it the other way around?
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 pm
The more important question to my mind is, why is no one else bidding to host it?
Why isn't England? I expect money is an issue, particularly as assuming the Saudis do come through with visas they have raised the bar for the prize fund. As mentioned earlier, it also isn't clear to me that England could make the requisite visa promises.
Money is always going to be a problem with hosting something like that in England, but why aren't the sort of countries who normally bid to host the less financially lucrative FIDE events bidding? The former Soviet Union will host four Olympiads in a row assuming Minsk is awarded the 2022 Olympiad. The World Rapid & Blitz would presumably cost much less to host than an Olympiad, so why no interest in bidding for the World Rapid & Blitz?

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 am

Ian Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 am
The reason no one else was bidding for the 2018 World Rapid and Blitz is because Agon/FIDE were not looking for bids as they had the Saudi offer (covering 2019 as well).
So how do you tout for bids when your expectation is that you will end up saying sorry, the Saudis came through so we don't need you after all?

By the way, forget Agon. The only interest there is whether they will manage to organise something that passes for a WC match.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:40 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:04 am
but why aren't the sort of countries who normally bid to host the less financially lucrative FIDE events bidding?
I think you are overlooking the "democratic" appeal of teams from nearly all federations and of varying standards taking part in the Olympiad. I know the popular view in England is that the rubbish little teams are a waste of space and what are they even doing there, but that is not widely shared around the world.

Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:47 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 am
So how do you tout for bids when your expectation is that you will end up saying sorry, the Saudis came through so we don't need you after all?
It's called contingency planning.

Brian Towers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:18 am

Ian Rogers wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 am
The only part of this situation that is to FIDE's credit is that they at least decided to cancel the event rather than hold it in a country which would exclude up to four countries from competing anyway.
Don't be so quick to lavish praise when it is not due.

The winner of the European Schools Girl U7 championships is being denied entry to the World Individual Schools Championships in Sousse, Tunisia because of her nationality.

Note, by the way, that the World Judo federation has already removed judo tournaments from Tunisia and the UAE for this kind of discrimination.

I'm not holding my breath for FIDE to take the tournament away from Tunisia.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Mick Norris
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:50 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:40 am
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:04 am
but why aren't the sort of countries who normally bid to host the less financially lucrative FIDE events bidding?
I think you are overlooking the "democratic" appeal of teams from nearly all federations and of varying standards taking part in the Olympiad. I know the popular view in England is that the rubbish little teams are a waste of space and what are they even doing there, but that is not widely shared around the world.
Really? I've never heard anyone expressing that opinion about the Olympiad; I doubt I can remember a dozen people expressing any opinion though, so I doubt there's a popular view
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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