British championship grading sections in the main event

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
John Reyes
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Location: Manchester

British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by John Reyes » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am

one of my mates, was saying that his grade is below 2051, and wanted to play the open section, he would lose £300 as he would not be able to qualify for the grading prize?

they should have done this as 2200 and under

British Championship

Please note – the organisers reserve the right to change the prize fund for the Championship only

Entry before 22/6/18
GM, IM, WGM, WIM – Free; FM/WFM – £75; 2150 and above untitled – £150; 2000 – 2149 inclusive – £200; Under 2000 – £300
Entry 22/6/18 and after
GM, IM, WGM, WIM – £50; FM/WFM – £125; 2150 and above untitled – £200; 2000 – 2149 inclusive – £250; Under 2000 – £350
Prizes
1st £10000; 2nd £5000, 3rd £3000; 4th £2000; 5th £1500; 6th £1000; 7th £1000 8th £500; 9th £500; 10th £500
British Women’s Championship 1st £1000; 2nd £500; 3rd £250
English Champion £1500
Under 21 1st £1000; 2nd £500; 3rd £250;
50+ Special Prizes 1st £1000; 2nd £500; 3rd £250
Alexander Best Game Prize £100
Rating Prizes
2451-2550 1st £1000; 2nd £500; 3rd £250
2351-2450 1st £1000; 2nd £500; 3rd £250
2201-2350 £250
2051-2200 £250
Best Game Prize £250
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

Reg Clucas
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Reg Clucas » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:11 pm

These prizes are for the main championship, which is not an 'open section' - so I guess the rationale is that they don't expect many people with ratings <2051 to qualify.

Roger de Coverly
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:31 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:11 pm
so I guess the rationale is that they don't expect many people with ratings <2051 to qualify.
In that case, why are there at least 10 places available from the previous year's Major Open?

It's a deplorable policy, which the London Classic FIDE Open also used, but only for one year.

John Reyes
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by John Reyes » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:36 pm

I agree roger, it is like here is £300 quid for nothing, and I can't win anything bar the best game prize
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

Alan Walton
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Location: Oldham

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:56 pm

I think in this transitional year until the new qualifying process is embedded it does look strange to have a lower limit

Once the new qualifying is in place; I suspect the volume of U2051 players will be significantly reduce and this becomes less of an issue

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:27 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:56 pm
Once the new qualifying is in place; I suspect the volume of U2051 players will be significantly reduce and this becomes less of an issue
All the normal Congress routes to qualification have been blocked and replaced by a Grand Prix only applying to FIDE rated events. It remains to be seen how popular the Major Open will be in Hull to players who may previously have qualified for the Championship.

Kevin Thurlow
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:52 pm

"These prizes are for the main championship, which is not an 'open section' - so I guess the rationale is that they don't expect many people with ratings <2051 to qualify."

And the new qualification rules are intended to reduce such qualifiers. There is at least one player <2051 who doesn't care about the rating prize.

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Michael Farthing
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Morecambe, Europe

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Michael Farthing » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:12 pm

Ah, but with a bit of effort over the next month I'm sure he could push his way up to the boundary

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:36 pm

There'll presumably still be a quota of scarily underrated juniors out there :)

They belong of course. Standard people who are just <2050 is another matter.

Richard Bates
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Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:13 am

John Reyes wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am
one of my mates, was saying that his grade is below 2051, and wanted to play the open section, he would lose £300 as he would not be able to qualify for the grading prize?

they should have done this as 2200 and under
Why does he want to play in the “Open” section?

John Reyes
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by John Reyes » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:12 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:13 am
John Reyes wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am
one of my mates, was saying that his grade is below 2051, and wanted to play the open section, he would lose £300 as he would not be able to qualify for the grading prize?

they should have done this as 2200 and under
Why does he want to play in the “Open” section?
the reason he wanted to play in the open section, is that he has qualifying for the open section vi the major event

the ECF should have put an 2051 and under prize and that is all I'm saying, I do understand about some of the reasons, but at the end of the day, if you have qualifying, you should have a change if winning something, what £250 extra for a grading prize
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

J T Melsom
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:41 pm

It wouldn't take a lot to satisfy those who only play when they can win something and adjust the grading bands. But I wonder whether qualification isn't sufficient reward? Why have any prizes which effectively reward pretty average players in a national championship? In the Open golf the amateur prize is only awarded if the leading amateur survives the hallway cut. I suspect at the British, the winner of an U2051 prize will have done so by scoring heaviest in week 2 against a field s/he could conceivably have met in a properly supported Major. And entering is of course no guarantee of winning..

Roger de Coverly
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:58 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:41 pm
I suspect at the British, the winner of an U2051 prize will have done so by scoring heaviest in week 2 against a field s/he could conceivably have met in a properly supported Major.

The real insult is that the grading prize is specified as 2051 to 2200, or similar, rather than under 2200. (W-We) style prizes can favour the lowest rated player, but that's an argument against that style of prize rather than simply basing it on points scored.

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:11 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:58 pm
The real insult is that the grading prize is specified as 2051 to 2200, or similar, rather than under 2200. (W-We) style prizes can favour the lowest rated player, but that's an argument against that style of prize rather than simply basing it on points scored.
Yes. If you must use W-We you could base We on a minimum rating of 2050, or something, but don't just accept entries from people who have come through the qualification process and then tell them they're not eligible for any prize. That's offensive.

J T Melsom
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: British championship grading sections in the main event

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:21 pm

I don't think anybody has really explained why everybody in a national championships should be given the chance to compete for a 'special prize' or monetary reward, rather than play for prestige. At the very least I'd expect rewards if given only for scores significantly in excess of 50%. Its not an insult, just the organisers preferred way to distribute the prize fund. Nobody is being prevented from playing chess by this decision.

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