County Championship Finals

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
NickFaulks
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:24 pm

IanCalvert wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:07 pm
Surrey isn't really a minor county
A point I have made several times myself. However, we were in it legitimately and it was an opportunity not to be missed.

By the way, I am as you know very fond of warm surroundings, but even I would have been slightly uncomfortable in the little room set aside for the Open. That was a great shame, because I thought that conditions for all of the other matches were pretty good, if still slightly short of 4NCL's excellent standards. I hope people will give the new Controller ( and the incoming Home Director ) the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps the veteran players have heard it all before.

David Sedgwick
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Location: Croydon

Re: County Championship Finals

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:08 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:06 pm
I was there to present the prizes, and I agree the playing conditions weren’t great. No promises (money is tight as always), but we’ll see if anything can be done for next year.
Mike, thank you for coming on Saturday, and thank you for posting.

But:
Mike Truran (in another thread) wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:54 pm
… we need to be ready to pay for room hire in a 4NCL-standard venue. I'm afraid we don't do schools or community centres!

The ECF has just raised an additional £9,000 per annum in income by abolishing the discount for membership subscriptions paid online.

It is contributing £36,000 to the cost of sending the England teams to the forthcoming Olympiad.

It can and must find a fraction of those sums to enable the Counties Championship Finals to be held in acceptable playing conditions.

If a venue would not be considered acceptable for a 4NCL event, then it should not be considered suitable for the Counties Championships Finals.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:12 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:24 pm
I hope people will give the new Controller ( and the incoming Home Director ) the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps the veteran players have heard it all before.
The controller has absolutely NOTHING to do with the arrangements for finals day which are dealt with by the Home Director. It does sound like there was an opportunity around the conditions for the Open match but including the controller in the criticism is unfair.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

John Reyes
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Location: Manchester

Re: County Championship Finals

Post by John Reyes » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:33 pm

I wonder if people can recommend venues for finals day, like there got to be somewhere in Birmingham that you could find?
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

Mark Murrell
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Mark Murrell » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:58 pm

The side room which hosted the Open section had its own independent air conditioning control. I know, as I switched it in the morning when putting up notices and placing board numbers. From the reports posted and otherwise received it would appear that the units failed or were unable to cope, both of which were outside the control of the organisers. This assumes that the units were not switched off and the windows not opened. This thread also suggests that the room in question did not present the same problems last year. As a participant I know that in previous years one or more sections were hived off to other parts of the building, which was not entirely satisfactory for different reasons, one of which being inclusivity. Playing conditions are important, especially at an event where spectating is not discouraged. The CEO formed his own view and is taking action.

Alan Walton
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Alan Walton » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Mark Murrell wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:58 pm
The side room which hosted the Open section had its own independent air conditioning control. I know, as I switched it in the morning when putting up notices and placing board numbers. From the reports posted and otherwise received it would appear that the units failed or were unable to cope, both of which were outside the control of the organisers. This assumes that the units were not switched off and the windows not opened. This thread also suggests that the room in question did not present the same problems last year. As a participant I know that in previous years one or more sections were hived off to other parts of the building, which was not entirely satisfactory for different reasons, one of which being inclusivity. Playing conditions are important, especially at an event where spectating is not discouraged. The CEO formed his own view and is taking action.
Thanks for the explanation; I have played in the previous 4 finals at this venue and the room the open has always been played is very cramped a even with air conditioning on isn't the greatest; once it was known that the air conditioning was in a unsatisfactory position (and this happened before the games started as I noticed an engineer turning the system off, and opening one window only) then it would have been a totally sensible decision to move boards around, to mitigate; but that is too sensible isn't it

Nick Grey
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:21 pm

Many of us were at the venue 90 minutes before the start. We should have agreed with the team to move 16 tables/sets onto the landing for one of the matches. I'm surprised that the captains could not have agreed it. It was obvious it was getting worse.

I had heat exhaustion, dehydration and high blood sugars a month ago requiring a day and a half on drips, insulin, ECG and all sorts of tests for raised pulse and rapid heart whilst resting. Some of the issues related to playing chess under unsuitable conditions. I got my own medical requirements sorted with Mark. I just forgot to ask for an extra chair to elevate one swollen ankle.

There were some confusing instructions at the beginning concerning finding out the current match positions & even seemed to imply an automatic default for asking what was the score in the England game. I spent 20 minutes trying to find our arbiter without joy.

No announcement about a prize giving. So thanks for the trophy/medal which hopefully our captain can bring to an autumn meeting. All of the players in our car had appointments at home and out for meals.

I was surprised there was no screen for the football. My family and friends now seem to think I am addicted to chess and have a mental issue. That it has taken precedence over an important England football match. As well as my health in oppressive conditions.

What I will say is that the venue and playing conditions need to take priority over any suggestion of prizes or prize money and as the next one is 100 years the ECF will have to sort it out.

Nick Grey
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:34 pm

Mark - in short I believe the obligation on all of us was to suggest moving the Open out onto the landing. You could have decided to make it one of the other sections. It was oppressive in the control room too.

The playing conditions in our area were fine.

Thanking you and all of your team for the day.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:20 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:21 pm
What I will say is that the venue and playing conditions need to take priority over any suggestion of prizes or prize money and as the next one is 100 years the ECF will have to sort it out.
Actually it is the next but one that is the 100th Championships.

All the same, it would be good if the ECF could ensure suitable conditions for the 99th Championships.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:18 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:21 pm

I was surprised there was no screen for the football. My family and friends now seem to think I am addicted to chess and have a mental issue. That it has taken precedence over an important England football match. As well as my health in oppressive conditions.
While the possibility of a clash with an England match could have been foreseen as soon as the world Cup draw and schedule was announced it only became a strong possibility when England won their opening matches and a certainty when England defeated Columbia (their first knockout stage win since 2006 of course). So the organisers had relatively little time to factor that in on top of everything else they needed to sort. I'm not sure whether you mean a screen as in a television on a shelf somewhere or a special big screen for the occasion but I don't think failure to provide one is a fair criticism.

In any case the Home Directorship falls vacant this October. As so many contributors here clearly have strong ideas how things should be done I expect a hotly contested election.

As the final always takes place in early July it is more rather than less likely that conditions on finals day will be hot. Even if the air conditioning had been up to par many players would have had to endure a long car journey in the heat or navigate public transport with the sun beating down upon them. I don't want to re-open this debate but as long as the national stages have to co-exist with the union stages the final will always fall in conditions not really conducive to chess.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Roger de Coverly
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:29 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:18 pm
Even if the air conditioning had been up to par many players would have had to endure a long car journey in the heat or navigate public transport with the sun beating down upon them.
Nearly every modern car has air-con, as do many trains.

This forthcoming weekend there are Congresses down in Kent in a school sports hall and in Telford in a hotel. Both will clash with either England v Belgium on Saturday afternoon or England v France on Sunday afternoon.

NickFaulks
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:43 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:18 pm
as long as the national stages have to co-exist with the union stages the final will always fall in conditions not really conducive to chess.
Having grown up in the UK, the idea that the glorious English Summer will always make chess impossible just leaves me speechless. Perhaps I am influenced by having lived in a part of the world that actually has summers on a regular basis, and somehow people survive and even play chess.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:05 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:18 pm
As the final always takes place in early July it is more rather than less likely that conditions on finals day will be hot. Even if the air conditioning had been up to par many players would have had to endure a long car journey in the heat or navigate public transport with the sun beating down upon them. I don't want to re-open this debate but as long as the national stages have to co-exist with the union stages the final will always fall in conditions not really conducive to chess.
This coming weekend there is a 4NCL Congress in Telford. As this is in mid-July it is more rather than less likely that conditions will be hot and hence not really conducive to chess.

Unfortunately the 4NCL persist in organising a Team League competition from November to May. As long as their Congresses have to co-exist with their League some of the former will have to be held on unsuitable summer dates.

Clearly the 4NCL need to discontinue their League in order to enable all of their Congresses to take place during the winter months.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: County Championship Finals

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:33 pm

Of course chess can be played during the summer - I'll be at the British in a few weeks time just like I am every year. However there is a slight difference between a congress where you normally have a base for at least most of the event and the county championships where people travel a long distance for a single game. Roger is right to say that cars and trains tend to be air conditioned but even then travelling in hot weather is often unpleasant.

I know some Yorkshire colleagues are unhappy about the finals being held in high summer and don't understand why the event can't take place earlier in the year. I have explained why there is no alternative to a July final.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own


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