Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:49 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:41 pm
showing Nigel on 50% and Makro on 5% has spooked the Makro team and this is their way of lashing out?
It's a live poll
http://chess-news.ru/node/24922

Current standings
Short - 53.2%
Dvorkovich - 31.8%
against all - 9.9%
Makropoulos - 5.2%
Google translate wrote: But the vote will be delegates from the Federation, and they, as a rule, chess players are not consulted and the choice is made on the basis of political, tactical or financial reasons.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:01 am

This from Malcolm is a rather better point, and it wouldn't hurt if chess journalists asked Nigel some "how much did you know?" questions.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:50 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:01 am
asked Nigel some "how much did you know?" questions.
I expect he knew what we all knew, that FIDE insiders such as Leong expected something in return for their voting support and this was standard operating practice. We also knew that Kirsan was touring the world offering inducements with the assistance of the Russian state and this was recorded on the official fide.com site.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:50 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:01 am
asked Nigel some "how much did you know?" questions.
I expect he knew what we all knew, that FIDE insiders such as Leong expected something in return for their voting support and this was standard operating practice.
However I'm not all that interested in what generalities he may have known, I'm interested in what facts he actually knew.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:11 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:01 am
I'm interested in what facts he actually knew.
The facts were fairly clear, were they not? The contract(s) between Kasparov or the Kasparov Foundation and Leong or Leong controlled organisations had been leaked. It was FIDE's Ethics Commission that placed a judgement on these facts that the behaviour was unethical.

http://ethics.fide.com/images/stories/E ... e_5.14.pdf

They found Kirsan not guilty, notwithstanding all the material on FIDE's website.
http://ethics.fide.com/images/stories/E ... 7_2014.pdf

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:16 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:11 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:01 am
I'm interested in what facts he actually knew.
The facts were fairly clear, were they not?
But not who knew them and when, which is Malcolm's point, is it not?
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:11 am
It was FIDE's Ethics Commission that placed a judgement on these facts that the behaviour was unethical.
Well, them and CAS.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Brian Towers » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:23 am

The Pein-Short spat has taken an interesting philological turn with Pein taking Short to task for his spelling of the Hebrew/Yiddish word "חוצפה" or "חֻצְפָּה". Pein writes "Chutzpah" and Short "hutzpah". For completenes sake I should add that I've also seen it written "chutzpa" by Sabras (native born Israelis). Of course any writing of this word using the Latin alphabet is obviously a transliteration and so the exact spelling is open to argument.

Old fashioned paper dictionaries aren't much help. My Meriam-Webster and Chambers 20th Century both have "chutzpah" but there is no mention of the word in my Shorter OED in any of its incarnations. This might suggest that Americans are more qualified than Brits to discus the etymology.

Perhaps the best authority nowadays is the Google Books NGram Viewer. This shows that "chutzpah" has been on the rise since the late 1950's and today dominates "chutzpa" and "hutzpah" by a ratio of roughly 100:5:1. For completeness sake I should note that "hutzpa" also exists although it is much less common than "hutzpah".
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:33 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:16 am
But not who knew them and when, which is Malcolm's point, is it not?
Your blog post reminds us that the leak was in January 2014, before the elections. Wasn't the leak not so long after the draft first being written and when the defection of Leong to the Kasparov camp was headline news? Didn't the conspirators make the somewhat elementary mistake of using FIDE servers for their email exchanges?

(edited for time line)

Chris Rice
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:40 am

Brian Towers wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:23 am
The Pein-Short spat has taken an interesting philological turn with Pein taking Short to task for his spelling of the Hebrew/Yiddish word "חוצפה" or "חֻצְפָּה". Pein writes "Chutzpah" and Short "hutzpah". For completenes sake I should add that I've also seen it written "chutzpa" by Sabras (native born Israelis). Of course any writing of this word using the Latin alphabet is obviously a transliteration and so the exact spelling is open to argument.

Old fashioned paper dictionaries aren't much help. My Meriam-Webster and Chambers 20th Century both have "chutzpah" but there is no mention of the word in my Shorter OED in any of its incarnations. This might suggest that Americans are more qualified than Brits to discus the etymology.

Perhaps the best authority nowadays is the Google Books NGram Viewer. This shows that "chutzpah" has been on the rise since the late 1950's and today dominates "chutzpa" and "hutzpah" by a ratio of roughly 100:5:1. For completeness sake I should note that "hutzpa" also exists although it is much less common than "hutzpah".
Tweet from Peter Heine Nielsen to Nigel and Malcolm:

"FYI: You guys are not running for the presidency of the Scrabble Federation :-)"

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:54 am

It's Malcolm Pein's birthday today and the Russian Chess Federation has made him the Person of the Day.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:17 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:33 am
Wasn't the leak not so long after the draft first being written and when the defection of Leong to the Kasparov camp was headline news?
It's gone quiet on the "who knew what" front. Reviewing some of the material from that period, there was competitive leaking going on with the Kasparov team obtaining a copy of the draft Agon contract as well as FIDE's Kirsan supporters leaking a copy of the Leong agreement. That contains a mention of Makro as a beneficiary, so it's a reasonable "who knew what" question to ask when he knew about that. It may even be to his credit that he realised how toxic it would be if a third party organisation supposedly running world championships on FIDE's behalf was paying kickbacks to FIDE officials.

Brian Towers
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:29 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:54 am
It's Malcolm Pein's birthday today and the Russian Chess Federation has made him the Person of the Day.
But strangely no mention in the article of his role in the presidential elections -
Russian Chess Federation wrote:Today, Pein’s main project is a super-tournament in Britain’s capital.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Angus French » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:12 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:17 am
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:33 am
Wasn't the leak not so long after the draft first being written and when the defection of Leong to the Kasparov camp was headline news?
It's gone quiet on the "who knew what" front. Reviewing some of the material from that period, there was competitive leaking going on with the Kasparov team obtaining a copy of the draft Agon contract as well as FIDE's Kirsan supporters leaking a copy of the Leong agreement. That contains a mention of Makro as a beneficiary, so it's a reasonable "who knew what" question to ask when he knew about that. It may even be to his credit that he realised how toxic it would be if a third party organisation supposedly running world championships on FIDE's behalf was paying kickbacks to FIDE officials.
The "draft Agon contract" referred to was, I think, a draft memorandum on the ownership and operation of Agon and not the draft contract between FIDE and Agon. If I recall, Ilyumzhinov (and Andrew Paulson) signed the document but the others referenced in it didn't and supposedly had no knowledge of the proposal. I believe the story was that Makro put a stop things as soon as he found out.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:40 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:54 am
It's Malcolm Pein's birthday today and the Russian Chess Federation has made him the Person of the Day.
Their POTD biogs are remarkably unpolitical. Take this extract, a few days ago, about Lubomir Kavalek:

"In 1968, the young champion was sent to the prestigious Rubinstein Memorial in Poland, where Lubomir finished second. At the same time, the armies of the Warsaw Pact entered Czechoslovakia and replaced Alexander Dubcek’s government. Kavalek supported the Prague Spring and decided to emigrate immediately.

"Lubomir’s flight was reminiscent of spy stories: the grandmaster used his winnings to buy a few bottles of alcohol, which he then gave to border guards to let him pass into West Germany. Soon after, Kavalek ended up in the US."


It's not hard to remember a time when no Russian/Soviet publication would have dreamt of publishing an account involving someone supporting the Prague Spring and bribing Warsaw Pact officials!


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