Youngest ever English GM

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
Roger de Coverly
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Youngest ever English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:46 pm

I was wondering who was the youngest ever English/British GM .

Contenders would be Tony, Nigel, Mickey, Matthew, Luke, David. Tony Miles was the world's youngest GM after he qualified in 1976, but the others presumably beat his record.

Leonard Barden
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Leonard Barden » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:13 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_How ... ss_player)
Howell at 16. Wiki right for once. In reply to the unspoken question, Shreyas at the moment is not really on a trajectory to beat that.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:14 am

According to the fide site David was rated 2193 in July 2001 aged 10 years 8 months.

Shreyas is rated 2115 aged 9 years 7 months.

If he maintains his current rate of progress he will be ahead of that curve.

At Shreyas current age, Praggnanandhaa was rated 2200. Whereas Abdusattorov was rated 2057

Alan Walton
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Alan Walton » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:53 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:14 am
According to the fide site David was rated 2193 in July 2001 aged 10 years 8 months.

Shreyas is rated 2115 aged 9 years 7 months.

If he maintains his current rate of progress he will be ahead of that curve.

At Shreyas current age, Praggnanandhaa was rated 2200. Whereas Abdusattorov was rated 2057
Remember back then k factors were only 15 for everybody, and not 40; if your are to do true comparisons then you have to calculate on an equivalent basis

A truer comparison will be titles, for example Luke winning the U10 world at 8 years old, and when and if he gets FM/IM/GM; from memory I played David in August 2003 and he was a FM @ 2300+

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:14 am

Alan Walton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:53 am
Remember back then k factors were only 15 for everybody, and not 40; if your are to do true comparisons then you have to calculate on an equivalent basis
Start ratings were higher as well, so if you come in at 1600 or 1800 that's less of a gain needed to reach 2300 and an FM title. CM and FM titles are awarded as prizes, so don't always indicate rating progress.

NickFaulks
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:37 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:14 am
Whereas Abdusattorov was rated 2057
One number does not tell the full story. That was the point at which he played his first two GM opponents and beat them both.

All of the other names mentioned were thrown in at the deep end around Shreyas' age. There is every reason to be optimistic that he will perform well when he starts to take on 2200+ opposition, but it is right that this should not happen before he feels comfortable doing so.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:35 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:37 am
That was the point at which he played his first two GM opponents and beat them both.
That is quite astonishing!

Even if he is a little behind some of these record breaking prodigies, Shreyas seems to at least be in the discussion. And as with the Bacrot/Aronian example, true potential is not revealed until full maturity.

Alan Walton
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Alan Walton » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:15 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:14 am
Alan Walton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:53 am
Remember back then k factors were only 15 for everybody, and not 40; if your are to do true comparisons then you have to calculate on an equivalent basis
Start ratings were higher as well, so if you come in at 1600 or 1800 that's less of a gain needed to reach 2300 and an FM title. CM and FM titles are awarded as prizes, so don't always indicate rating progress.
But it was a lot harder to get a rating, since you neeeded a performance over 2000; but back in the day it was rare to see juniors jump so quickly; also since ratings only changed every quarter not monthly

All I am trying to say comparing ratings under two fundamental different calculations is pretty pointless

Nick Burrows
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:47 pm

When did the k factor change from 15 to 40?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:10 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:15 pm
But it was a lot harder to get a rating, since you neeeded a performance over 2000
Over time, it reduced progressively from 2000 down to 1000. Although it was a lot harder to get a rating, that can actually be good for rapidly improving players, since they don't get stuck with an obsolete rating. Look at the rapid rating for the world's youngest GM for instance.
Alan Walton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:15 pm
All I am trying to say comparing ratings under two fundamental different calculations is pretty pointless
They are supposedly on the same historic scale of "measurement of strength". For English players we could also compare ECF grades, although that was tampered with when they went through the regrading exercise and changed the rules on juniors.

Paul Dargan
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Paul Dargan » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:10 pm

And of course in the forgotten-about North East - Yichen Han (sadly NED) beat Hebden at the weekend in the MCCU Open

David Sedgwick
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:00 pm

Paul Dargan wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:10 pm
And of course in the forgotten-about North East - Yichen Han (sadly NED) beat Hebden at the weekend in the MCCU Open
Malcolm Pein reported this in his Daily Telegraph column yesterday, Tuesday 15th June, giving the critical moves 27 - 32 of an 86 move game.

Nick Grey
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:24 pm

I see little point in Shreyas playing grading restricted tournaments and ought to play, amongst other tournaments, the London Chess Classic.
Hopefully he will get world class education too which is something that this country fails in compared to many others.
By all means play the age restricted tournaments but win them 2 years early for a better comparison as noted on this thread.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:40 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:24 pm
I see little point in Shreyas playing grading restricted tournaments
His grade and rating may now be high enough that he isn't allowed to.

The restriction for the next 4NCL tournament in Nottingham is
4NCL entry conditions wrote: FIDE Rated U2000: Open to FIDE rated players rated below 2000 FIDE and ECF graded players graded below 175 ECF *
He satisfied the first condition on the end July FIDE list, but not the second on the ECF list.

Leonard Barden
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Re: Youngest ever English GM

Post by Leonard Barden » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:55 pm

Shreyas is not interested in playing grading restricted tournaments now anyway except Hampstead U2200, he wants Opens.

He may play the world U10, for which in Fide terms he is still an U9, as he hasn't won any world titles yet.

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