County Chess 2018-19

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Nick Grey
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County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:24 am

I am very sad that I'm having to look at rule changes regarding SCCU stage of this year's competition. It is not surprising that County Chess has a problem in attracting and keeping captains.

Also I'm not surprised that in club chess we still have disputes and appeals that are really not in the best interests of English Chess.

Now time to be nice...Think happy thoughts...Look forward and never look back...Smile at people...even grumpy ones :)

Neil Graham
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:02 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:24 am
I am very sad that I'm having to look at rule changes regarding SCCU stage of this year's competition. It is not surprising that County Chess has a problem in attracting and keeping captains.

Also I'm not surprised that in club chess we still have disputes and appeals that are really not in the best interests of English Chess.

Now time to be nice...Think happy thoughts...Look forward and never look back...Smile at people...even grumpy ones :)
Before I answer this could you detail what these rule changes are? This will save non SCCU cognoscenti having to wade through their rules.

Nick Grey
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:41 pm

CMR proposed amendments SGM (4).pdf
(176.14 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
Hope this works.

Michael Flatt
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Michael Flatt » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:52 pm

The discussion and proposed amendments to SCCU County Match Rules arose from concerns that the Rules and Appeals sub-committee had regarding what they considered the large number and the nature of the disputes that went to appeal last season (2017-18).

It is normal practice that there is no arbiter present at matches between SCCU counties and any dispute that cannot be resolved by the two captains acting together is referred to the County Match Controller (CMC).

Last season three such disputes arose and on each occasion the ruling made by the CMC was appealed. These cases relate to:
(i) registration of an ungraded player
(ii) conclusion of a quick play finish
(iii) the use of a mobile phone

The decision regarding whether the proposed amendments will be adopted and whether they will apply for the new season will be determined at the Special General Meeting to be held on 28th September 2018.

Any player who wish to express a view should contact their SCCU representative. See: SCCU Who's Who

Alex Holowczak
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:52 pm
The discussion and proposed amendments to SCCU County Match Rules arose from concerns that the Rules and Appeals sub-committee had regarding what they considered the large number and the nature of the disputes that went to appeal last season (2017-18).
Why does the County Championship (ECF stage and apparently in the SCCU) get more disputes and appeals than, say, league matches? They're both arbiterless, but there are far more league matches played that don't lead to anywhere near the number of disputes that regularly appear in the County Championship.

Nick Grey
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:42 pm

It may be because of custom and practice, or even those ruling on the intention of rules in making their decisions.
I can think of a number of rulings where other decisions would have been made if these rules were in force.
Appeal decision may have been changed.
I'll get my views to our rep.

But if Michael can answer on one point on 5c2i is one minute before the start of a match sufficient?

Michael Flatt
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:18 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:42 pm
But if Michael can answer on one point on 5c2i is one minute before the start of a match sufficient?
The role of the controller is to facilitate the playing of chess in accordance with the rules of the competition.

In the case of a dispute during a match where no arbiter is present, the onus is initially on the two match captains to attempt to resolve the matter themselves. Where this not possible the matter can then referred to the competition controller, whose decision may be appealed. The Appeal is heard by an independent panel drawn from members of the Rules and Appeals sub-committee.

As SCCU controller I prefer not to offer any further comments, but await the outcome of the Special General Meeting.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:57 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm
Why does the County Championship (ECF stage and apparently in the SCCU) get more disputes and appeals than, say, league matches? They're both arbiterless, but there are far more league matches played that don't lead to anywhere near the number of disputes that regularly appear in the County Championship.
I don't think that that is true in respect of the SCCU Counties Championships. There were three disputes that went to appeal last season, but there had only been one in the preceding seven seasons.

I think that it is quite common for rule changes to follow an unpleasant dispute.

Nick Grey
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:26 pm

Michael my comment was on 52ci regarding eligibility of ungraded players. But if we are waiting for the outcome of a meeting once that has happened I'd be grateful for hard copies of the forms, and the rules be posted to me from the SCCU. I am unable to do so at work.

John Reyes
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by John Reyes » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:20 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:57 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm
Why does the County Championship (ECF stage and apparently in the SCCU) get more disputes and appeals than, say, league matches? They're both arbiterless, but there are far more league matches played that don't lead to anywhere near the number of disputes that regularly appear in the County Championship.
I don't think that that is true in respect of the SCCU Counties Championships. There were three disputes that went to appeal last season, but there had only been one in the preceding seven seasons.

I think that it is quite common for rule changes to follow an unpleasant dispute.
Never happen in Darts


Maybe we need to bring in VAR in chess :)
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:56 pm

"Maybe we need to bring in VAR in chess "

Great idea, and use "ultra edge" to detect if someone touched a piece or not!

Nick Grey
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:39 pm

VAR in chess etc when arbiters are present because they cannot see everything. But it I believe it will not be an expense in the ECF's budget.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:46 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:39 pm
VAR in chess etc when arbiters are present because they cannot see everything.
Live video coverage already acts this way. The game against Aronian in the Candidates where Naka tried to take a move back is an example.

Nick Grey
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:07 pm

That is true Roger but the Candidates had a far larger budget than ECF's.

We are organised. We have avoided our teams clash with the Surrey Congress.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: County Chess 2018-19

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:12 am

WECU county chess is on its last legs now, with both Somerset and Gloucestershire no longer entering teams it is just Devon and Cornwall left holding the fort.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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