4NCL International Congress

Information regarding live broadcasts using the ECF sensory boards.
Nick Burrows
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:52 am

I maintain that in the vast majority of cases there is nothing sinister taking place. You should remain vigilant for suspicious behaviour, but letting every time an opponent leaves the board disturb you, ruin your performance and enjoyment of the game is mainly your perception of events rather than the reality.

Any isolated case of cheating doesnt change that.

Matthew Turner
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:58 am

This was an amazing tournament with some fantastic chess, unbelievable blunders and tremendous tension. I think the 4NCL deserve a great deal of credit for getting it on and organising it. It is a little bit sad that it has really piqued the interest once we have a player graded in the 70’s to talk about.

Nick Grey
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:32 am

I'm looking forward to playing through some games - great encouragement on this thread. Well done 4NCL.
As for cheating we ought to have life time bans, reports to clubs, schools & maybe the police.

Neill Cooper
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Neill Cooper » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:32 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:37 am
Wonder if his school gets informed? Can’t imagine they’d be too impressed...
I have informed the school teacher i/c chess who has informed the head teacher. They are not impressed.

NickFaulks
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:33 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:52 am
Any isolated case of cheating doesnt change that.
And then another one doesn't. And then another one doesn't. And then another one doesn't.

Clearly nothing will ever cause you to alter your view. It is of far more significance that after this embarrassment I don't think the 4NCL organisation will have any choice but to reconsider theirs.

Thomas Rendle
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Thomas Rendle » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:49 pm

If you suspect/are worried about your opponent during the game you can bring it to the attention of the arbiter who can then monitor the player. You can also ask for the arbiter to computer check the game afterwards I would think. Apart from that you have to get on with playing the game.

To the best of my knowledge noone has ever cheated against me in an OTB game. I've had some games where lower rated players it seemed to me played really well - but then if I check with a computer it turns out I just played worse than I thought! Honestly I don't think much cheating going on in International tournaments. It may be slightly more common at a lower level, but it should also be more obvious and easier to catch with computer checking.

On the other hand I have been accused of cheating more than once! I walk around a lot, especially at events like the 4NCL (although this is not where I was accused, I suspect as people know me and know I've always wandered around!). I was accused by a strong GM a couple of years ago, but he was just playing badly (while I was watching the rugby in the bar). It turned out he'd accused his first round opponent (a 2100) as well, and it had definitely affected that player (he accused him directly, rather than to the arbiter - as he did me.) I then informed the arbiter of the accusation and continued to watch the rugby in the bar!

tl:dr - If you're worried, inform the arbiter but not the opponent and then get on with the game. If they're cheating it's likely to become apparent as more people complain. Most of the time though they're simply restless!

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:22 pm

For the record, the 4NCL statement (can't link direct, but it is from here):
4NCL wrote: 06.11.18 - During a routine Anti-Cheating check by the arbiting team during the 1st 4NCL International, a player was found to have used electronic means to assist them with their games.

After further investigation, that player was subsequently disqualified from the tournament. The details have been forwarded to the FIDE Fair Play Commission, and consequently it is not possible to comment further on the case at this time.

We have received a number of questions about the scores of the players in the tournament. Page 13 of the FIDE Anti-Cheating Guidelines, which are binding on us given the tournament is FIDE-rated, say the following:

“In an individual Open tournament, the offender shall be excluded from the final ranking. Each of the offender’s games shall be considered a loss, but the score for the opponent shall remain unchanged. All games shall be reported as unplayed.”

None of the 8 games played by the player have been submitted for FIDE rating, and they will not be submitted for ECF grading.

Alex Holowczak - Chief Arbiter, 1st 4NCL International

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:09 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:22 am
Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:37 am
David Robertson wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:52 pm

His rd 8 win was a corker. Not bad for a 1200. Wouldn't have been out of place for a 2400 :roll: CCF, hhmm
Wonder if his school gets informed? Can’t imagine they’d be too impressed...
I wonder that this matter is being treated so lightly. This was surely a concerted attempt to gain £600 by fraudulent means maintained consistently across 8 rounds of a tournament. A six year old would know that this was wrong and unacceptable. Have the police been informed? This was a clear and intentional crime.
Having previously been in the police for 11 years I'd agree it would be possible to have it recorded as an attempted fraud. It's would obviously come across as a unique case to police, but I think a well timed visit to a police station with some handy pre written MG11 statements and clear, neat bundle of evidence, a police officer would happily record the crime and interview the kid with an appropriate adult present. I'd imagine given the seriousness of the 'attempt' he might be 50/50 for a date at Youth Court, depending on local juvenile policies and diversions.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:32 pm

Was it a 'solo' effort or is there any indication there were any accomplices?

Nick Burrows
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:49 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:33 am
Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:52 am
Any isolated case of cheating doesnt change that.
And then another one doesn't. And then another one doesn't. And then another one doesn't.

Clearly nothing will ever cause you to alter your view. It is of far more significance that after this embarrassment I don't think the 4NCL organisation will have any choice but to reconsider theirs.
Not quite true. The thing that would get me to alter my view is evidence. So far, the evidence tells me that there are isolated cases of cheating and that usually people leaving the board...are just leaving the board. Like Thomas, to the best of my knowledge nobody has cheated against me and to be honest I can't even think of a candidate.

In this case who is embarrassed? s**t happens. They caught the cheat. Well done the 4ncl team.

Nick Grey
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Neill thanks for the update with the school.
I'm not sure what other case NIck F is moaning about. He ought to have informed the arbiter & let him deal with it.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:20 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:26 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:31 pm
The tension doesn’t finish even when the tournament is over :? - anyone know who the two qualifiers for the British Knockout are?
Looking at the final rankings on chess-results http://chess-results.com/tnr388763.aspx ... =9&flag=30 it may well be you and your last round opponent, with events on boards 5 and 6 providing late drama.
Prize winners up on the 4NCL website and looks like Lawrence is right 🍾 😊😊😊🍾
Congratulations, Matt! Would it be cheeky of me to ask if this ranks up there with your best results, other than, of course, your pending victory in the British Knockout itself? :D

Matthew Turner
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:47 pm

It depends how you judge it. It is a pretty solid performance to win three games and draw six, but had there been a different result on board 11 in the last round, I would have gone home with £167 and a few less rating points. Statistically, I am sure that I have had quite a few better performances, but I think it is fair to say that I am pretty pleased to have qualified.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:48 pm

Thomas Rendle wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:49 pm
....

tl:dr - If you're worried, inform the arbiter but not the opponent and then get on with the game. If they're cheating it's likely to become apparent as more people complain. Most of the time though they're simply restless!
I agree with everything Tom said, but would highlight this - tell the arbiter! I became suspicious of a lower rated opponent who suddenly started playing much better in a tactical position despite starting to disappear regularly for prolonged periods. I told the arbiter; they asked my opponent's name and their reaction reassured me (obviously they could imagine him behaving suspiciously without realising it, but could not imagine him cheating). Post mortem offered further reassurance, not that any was needed. All of this achieved without the player in question ever knowing of my suspicion, I believe.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: 4NCL International Congress

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:09 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:47 pm
It depends how you judge it. It is a pretty solid performance to win three games and draw six, but had there been a different result on board 11 in the last round, I would have gone home with £167 and a few less rating points. Statistically, I am sure that I have had quite a few better performances, but I think it is fair to say that I am pretty pleased to have qualified.
I should have thought you have had a higher TPR in each of the last three 4NCL seasons, let alone various recent tournament wins. I think it right that you have qualified because you have been sustaining a consistently high level for a while now, probably more so than the others (not that I have checked).

But it is a shame that the qualifiers had to be determined by tiebreaks.

Are the six invitees announced yet?

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