Cheating in chess
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Re: Cheating in chess
I understand that science fundamentally involves looking at evidence and thinking about things
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Re: Cheating in chess
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
I think some online testing could be done. The problem is- we can only really test newish accounts.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:30 pmNothing to do with funding, obviously nothing of this sort could be done in a rated competition and what would be proved otherwise?
We don't know this, but would imagine a distinction is made between fresh accounts and those that haven't triggered cheating alerts for say 100 games. What established player would be fine with potentially losing their account on chesscom or lichess?
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Re: Cheating in chess
Justin,
So if look at this video
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/868118939?t=01h52m00s
You will see that they are using PGNSpy which is freely available with all the coding online, so the results are reproducible by anyone.
So if look at this video
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/868118939?t=01h52m00s
You will see that they are using PGNSpy which is freely available with all the coding online, so the results are reproducible by anyone.
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Re: Cheating in chess
Is that what lichess use?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
No, because PGNSpy uses just the moves. Lichess (and Chess.com) systems can be more complex because they have more data available. However, you can think of the PGNSpy analysis as a key subset of the platform's analysis.
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Re: Cheating in chess
You're saying that lichess use PGNSpy plus other data, yes?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
I think that’s a super useful piece of kit for the chess community to use. But in terms of court cases it would never stand up. You’d have to be ready for questions like who calibrated it, when was it last calibrated, where’s the certificate, what are their expert qualifications, how can you prove it was calibrated accurately on the day. What’s the case theory on similar court cases. It’s a total minefield! Even a simple drink drive case can end up being a proper head-scratching pain in the ass when you have to try and prove the accuracy of the instruments.Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:48 pmJustin,
So if look at this video
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/868118939?t=01h52m00s
You will see that they are using PGNSpy which is freely available with all the coding online, so the results are reproducible by anyone.
Last edited by Matt Bridgeman on Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cheating in chess
And maybe "what is the reliability of the results, has this been evaluated independently?" .Matt Bridgeman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:00 pmBut in terms of court cases it would never stand up. You’d have to be ready for questions like who calibrated it, when was it last calibrated, where’s the certificate, what are their expert qualifications, how can you prove it was calibrated accurately on the day
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am
Re: Cheating in chess
Regan tests, PGNSpy, Irwin all use the same methodologyJustinHorton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:00 pmYou're saying that lichess use PGNSpy plus other data, yes?
You can see all the coding for Irwin here
https://github.com/clarkerubber/irwin
which carries the motif
"irwin - the protector of lichess from all chess players villainous "
It did take me 15 seconds and a google search to find this out.
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Re: Cheating in chess
Do they produce the same results?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:06 pmRegan tests, PGNSpy, Irwin all use the same methodology
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am
Re: Cheating in chess
They will not be the same for various reasons, how for example they handle opening theory, but they will be very similar (when they are using the same engine to measure against).
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Re: Cheating in chess
There's no support in OTB chess for using the Regan methodology or similar in any way other than to give arbiters a wink as to whom they might wish to pay attention. Certainly not for arbitrary bans in the absence of physical or strong circumstantial evidence.
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Re: Cheating in chess
To varying extents this seems to be true of all online sites.
An expansion:
These sites believe to varying extents that their methodology is ineffective if it is made public or is reverse engineered by e.g. looking at games of alleged cheaters etc.
There's also the assumption that everyone who knows the methodology will keep it secret. Even 99% wouldn't be good enough.
I'd go so far as to say that not revealing the methodology is proof that those who know the methodology and are not constrained by agreement to keep it secret do not believe it is sufficiently reliable.
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Re: Cheating in chess
If they don't give the same results it's not the same methodology
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com