Transgender chess players

[Paolo Casaschi]

The fact that the policy never envisions a transgender woman having completed her transition long before she takes up chess (and therefore never changing her gender with FIDE) demonstrates the ignorance of those drafting it.

In practice neither national federations nor FIDE would know. There aren't any particular identity checks before someone is registered with FIDE by a national federation. I would think those drafting the policy would be aware of this.

So the policy discriminates between transgender women that had previous interaction with FIDE and those that never interacted with FIDE.

[Roger de Coverly]

So the policy discriminates between transgender women that had previous interaction with FIDE and those that never interacted with FIDE.

Doesn't the practicality force this? If you have someone who has achieved titles and a rating under a previous identity, you need a policy as to whether or not the two identities should be linked.

[NickFaulks]

Since you were personally involved in drafting the policy

My main role was to insist that FIDE must have some published policy and that the policy should be technically workable. I advised only on the second part, because that is my field of expertise - in particular, I was for some years responsible for FIDE's women's titles, which I support strongly. I am not sure that the second part has been achieved.

This policy is misogynistic. Either it supposes that women are the intellectual inferiors of men

We know that claim is sometimes made, but it makes no sense. Girls get better A level results but boys win more open chess tournaments, so which of these is a good guide to intellectual superiority? I would say neither.

The reasons for the existence of women's chess are social and cultural. Women's chess originated from our exclusion from men's spaces.

I realise that is true of the women's chess which you organise, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the very small number of FIDE Women's events which are affected by the new policy. The women who compete in those play most of their chess in mixed events, but enjoy the Women's events because they provide an opportunity to be crowned as a champion, which is less likely in open events. Even then they frequently take place side by side with the matching Open Championship. Sometimes the Women's Champion is actually the female player who has made the best score in an open event.

I can assure you that FIDE has absolutely no desire to influence who you allow into your groups. That would still be true even if you set up your own FIDE rated events, for women only. National championships can do whatever they like. It just isn't an issue at the level of everyday chess and has been blow up out of all proportion.

[Paolo Casaschi]

So the policy discriminates between transgender women that had previous interaction with FIDE and those that never interacted with FIDE.

Doesn't the practicality force this? If you have someone who has achieved titles and a rating under a previous identity, you need a policy as to whether or not the two identities should be linked.

I agree this might be a very convenient approach for FIDE.
But this does not make it less discriminatory or any more legal.

The question is why FIDE is restricting the participation to women event to transgender women previously registered with FIDE as men while a transgender woman never registered with FIDE would be allowed to play women events.

[NickFaulks]

The need for a policy of some description has been accepted for at least a year and the process has moved ahead according to schedule. It has not been rushed out.

Yes, I'm aware of that, you contacted me about it in January 2021

Oh my, did it really take that long? How time flies.

[NickFaulks]

The question is why FIDE is restricting the participation to women event to transgender women previously registered with FIDE as men while a transgender woman never registered with FIDE would be allowed to play women events.

That should not have been the intention. In my view, any player who enters a FIDE event, or the federation which enters them, confirms that they are eligible to do so. In the event of a complaint by another competitor that they were unfairly deprived of a reward, as is now routine in some sports, this can be checked.

[Djuna Tree]

The question is why FIDE is restricting the participation to women event to transgender women previously registered with FIDE as men while a transgender woman never registered with FIDE would be allowed to play women events.

That should not have been the intention. In my view, any player who enters a FIDE event, or the federation which enters them, confirms that they are eligible to do so. In the event of a complaint by another competitor that they were unfairly deprived of a reward, as is now routine in some sports, this can be checked.

You've yet to explain what you think is unfair about a transgender woman playing in women's chess events. I certainly have no problem with it.

[MJMcCready]

Women, in many sports and games are not comfortable or object to transgender people appearing in their section as it causes additional problems, such as having to share the same facilities and amenities, and even already there is a track record of transgender people exploiting this and committing crimes such as rape many times over.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ilets.html

[Paolo Casaschi]

The question is why FIDE is restricting the participation to women event to transgender women previously registered with FIDE as men while a transgender woman never registered with FIDE would be allowed to play women events.

That should not have been the intention. In my view, any player who enters a FIDE event, or the federation which enters them, confirms that they are eligible to do so. In the event of a complaint by another competitor that they were unfairly deprived of a reward, as is now routine in some sports, this can be checked.

According to the FIDE policy, only transgender women requesting a change of the gender associated to their FIN are penalized.

Is there any indication anywhere in the FIDE rules that a new FIN should record gender in any other way than reflecting the legally recognized gender of the person at the moment of their application?

[Kevin Thurlow]

"“There’ll be no change in the English Chess Federation policy,” Pein added."

Is there an ECF policy? I have asked before but seem to recall that they said there was one, but wouldn't say what it was.

Caitlyn Jenner (once the best decathlete in the world) has been quoted as saying that if you have competed as a male in adult sport, you should not be allowed to compete in female events even if you undergo gender reassignment. But this restriction should not apply to chess (which is not a sport). The problem with swimming (and other sports) is that some males have not undergone gender reassignment, and yet have competed in female sports, and in some cases have used communal changing facilities causing alarm and distress to women using those facilities.

I see no reason to stop Caitlyn Jenner or Adele Anderson e.g., playing in women's chess events, as they have undergone complete transition.

[NickFaulks]

You've yet to explain what you think is unfair about a transgender woman playing in women's chess events. I certainly have no problem with it.

I think I have explained, over a long period, but am happy to reprise.

At championship / professional level, I think it is unfair to other women. This is already seen in other sports, where talented women simply no longer see any point in competing and have given up. To me, that is a shame.

Is chess, not a physical sport, different? To some extent yes, but it is still clear that having spent one's formative years as a boy is advantageous at chess, whatever the reasons, and I would expect this to persist throughout adult life.

Suppose you were your country's top U18 girl and anticipate a place in next year's Olympiad team. Instead, that place goes to someone who is currently the #7 U18 boy and has quite legitimately transitioned - do you think that is an injustice? Perhaps you don't, but you surely see why other women might disagree.

Finally, I would agree that deliberate abuse of the process is unlikely at levels which most of us are likely to attain. However, at the very highest level ( World Championship ), where quite serious money is involved, it is possible and that is something which must concern FIDE. See my post above for a detailed discussion.

[NickFaulks]

Caitlyn Jenner (once the best decathlete in the world) has been quoted as saying that if you have competed as a male in adult sport, you should not be allowed to compete in female events even if you undergo gender reassignment. But this restriction should not apply to chess (which is not a sport).

Whose comment is that, Caitlyn's or Kevin's?

[Tim Spanton]

Caitlyn Jenner (once the best decathlete in the world) has been quoted as saying that if you have competed as a male in adult sport, you should not be allowed to compete in female events even if you undergo gender reassignment. But this restriction should not apply to chess (which is not a sport).

Whose comment is that, Caitlyn's or Kevin's?

Chess is recognised as a sport in most EU countries, which is a main reason why it was possible to play there during the covid panic. The UK is the outlier.

[Djuna Tree]

Suppose you were your country's top U18 girl and anticipate a place in next year's Olympiad team. Instead, that place goes to someone who is currently the #7 U18 boy and has quite legitimately transitioned - do you think that is an injustice? Perhaps you don't, but you surely see why other women might disagree.

This comment is pretty telling. A transgender girl is not a "boy". Throughout this thread I have seen several users invent imaginary situations far removed from the experience of the people whose lives they affect.

I don't think it's an injustice. I don't think genitals or hormones affect a person's chess ability. And this bizarre attention unites trans women with all other women, because I know we all receive discriminatory treatment in chess.

Is chess, not a physical sport, different? To some extent yes, but it is still clear that having spent one's formative years as a boy is advantageous at chess, whatever the reasons, and I would expect this to persist throughout adult life.

Perhaps the transgender player in question should be subject to a minimum course of misogynistic treatment from male chess players before she is eligible to compete. Or as I would argue, we should improve the treatment of all women in our chess spaces.

[Paolo Casaschi]

At championship / professional level, I think it is unfair to other women. This is already seen in other sports, where talented women simply no longer see any point in competing and have given up. To me, that is a shame.

Is chess, not a physical sport, different? To some extent yes, but it is still clear that having spent one's formative years as a boy is advantageous at chess, whatever the reasons, and I would expect this to persist throughout adult life.

There's no point arguing personal opinions, but such policies should not be based on personal hunch.

The IOC has recently published some guidelines for sport federations to address this issue.

A couple of quotes from the IOC document:

6.1 Any restriction arising from eligibility criteria should be based on robust and peer reviewed research that ... demonstrates consistent, unfair, disproportionate competitive advantage in performance and/or an unpreventable risk to the physical safety of other athletes.

Did FIDE base their policy on robust and peer reviewed research or on a personal hunch?

8.1 When drafting, reviewing, evaluating and updating eligibility criteria sport organisations should meaningfully consult with a cross-section of athletes who might be negatively affected in order to prevent harm.

Did FIDE involve any of the players negatively impacted by the policy?