Transgender chess players

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Do you really think that anyone would go through a gender reassignment process in order to achieve the glory and the financial gains associated with the women chess world championship title? Really?"

Yes - Admittedly, some proper sports have allowed men to compete in women's events before they reassigned gender, which makes it easier for the competitor in question.

[LawrenceCooper]

Two federations have announced that they are opposed to the policy:

https://twitter.com/libe/status/1692560 ... xQSX50QlbI
https://twitter.com/Schachbund/status/1 ... esa2frCShU

The Russians are in favour though:
https://twitter.com/PHChess/status/1692 ... 95/photo/1

[Mick Norris]

No surprise

[NickFaulks]

Do you really think that anyone would go through a gender reassignment process in order to achieve the glory and the financial gains associated with the women chess world championship title? Really?

In the recent match for the Women's World Championship the winner ( 2564 ) took home €300,000, the loser ( 2554 ) €200,000. Those may be larger sums from one match than male players with those ratings would expect to win in prizes over their careers. [ By the way, I do not have a problem with this, although I do not argue that their prizes should be the same as those for the unrestricted World Championship ].

So yes, where the gender reassignment process consists of saying "as from today I identify as a woman", I would not be shocked if one of the world's top 400 players decided to give this a go.

[Kevin Thurlow]

This headline suggests that some people are misunderstanding the announcement, "Transgender Women Barred From Competing in World Chess Federation Events (COVER News India)"

[LawrenceCooper]

Do you really think that anyone would go through a gender reassignment process in order to achieve the glory and the financial gains associated with the women chess world championship title? Really?

In the recent match for the Women's World Championship the winner ( 2564 ) took home €300,000, the loser ( 2554 ) €200,000. Those may be larger sums from one match than male players with those ratings would expect to win in prizes over their careers. [ By the way, I do not have a problem with this, although I do not argue that their prizes should be the same as those for the unrestricted World Championship ].

So yes, where the gender reassignment process consists of saying "as from today I identify as a woman", I would not be shocked if one of the world's top 400 players decided to give this a go.

The irony being that publicly it is mainly men, not women, supporting the policy, thankfully not all with the extreme views that Nigel Short has voiced on Facebook. He does mention that he is aware of several women who are opposed to trans women playing in their tournaments but don't want to be identified. It is also fair to say that a policy was needed.

I'm not sure when FIDE had their first case of a player transitioning but believe it to be at least eleven years ago during which time I'm not aware of any men attempting to change their gender for financial gain. It could be that FIDE have been inundated with requests though and felt the need to act before it becomes as big an issue as males sexually harassing women.

[LawrenceCooper]

Do you really think that anyone would go through a gender reassignment process in order to achieve the glory and the financial gains associated with the women chess world championship title? Really?

In the recent match for the Women's World Championship the winner ( 2564 ) took home €300,000, the loser ( 2554 ) €200,000. Those may be larger sums from one match than male players with those ratings would expect to win in prizes over their careers. [ By the way, I do not have a problem with this, although I do not argue that their prizes should be the same as those for the unrestricted World Championship ].

So yes, where the gender reassignment process consists of saying "as from today I identify as a woman", I would not be shocked if one of the world's top 400 players decided to give this a go.

The irony being that publicly it is mainly men, not women, supporting the policy, thankfully not all with the extreme views that Nigel Short has voiced on Facebook. He does mention that he is aware of several women who are opposed to trans women playing in their tournaments but don't want to be identified. It is also fair to say that a policy was needed.

I'm not sure when FIDE had their first case of a player transitioning but believe it to be at least eleven years ago during which time I'm not aware of any men attempting to change their gender for financial gain. It could be that FIDE have been inundated with requests though and felt the need to act before it becomes as big an issue as males sexually harassing women.

My last point has been covered in an article in the New York Times where it states:
"Reizniece-Ozola said the organization “received several requests” to register gender changes and saw a need for regulations."

It also quotes Malcolm Pein who said: “We are opposed to it because it is discriminatory,” Malcolm Pein, the director of international chess at the English Chess Federation, said in a phone interview about the new policy. There is no intrinsic value to being a woman or a man when it comes to playing chess, he added.

“There’ll be no change in the English Chess Federation policy,” Pein added.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/spor ... -fide.html

[MJMcCready]

"Do you really think that anyone would go through a gender reassignment process in order to achieve the glory and the financial gains associated with the women chess world championship title? Really?"

Yes - Admittedly, some proper sports have allowed men to compete in women's events before they reassigned gender, which makes it easier for the competitor in question.

I don't think it will ever happen. There's not enough fame or money in chess to justify it, plus the chess community is rather conservative and unlikely to accept someone who does such things.

[Roger Lancaster]

This is all part of a wider debate regarding transgender rights which, probably due to my age, I have some difficulty identifying with. Leaving that to one side, trans people have rights (in most Western democracies but certainly not universally) along with the rest of humanity. The difficulty seems to lie in balancing one set of rights against another, for example - an extreme case - the right of a woman who has previously experienced male violence to sit in a "women only" rail carriage in the expectation that a previous abuser, having since transitioned, will not be permitted to take the adjacent seat.

[NickFaulks]

He does mention that he is aware of several women who are opposed to trans women playing in their tournaments but don't want to be identified.

This would not be a great surprise, given the viciousness of the attacks on anyone accused of being a "terf". Commission for Women's Chess ( all 23 of them! ) have conspiciously kept their heads well below the parapet.

and felt the need to act before it becomes as big an issue as males sexually harassing women.

The need for a policy of some description has been accepted for at least a year and the process has moved ahead according to schedule. It has not been rushed out.

[Djuna Tree]

https://doc.fide.com/docs/DOC/2FC2023/C ... 3DLfgwhrhI

Thanks. I did see this in draft and, while agreeing entirely with the principle, pointed out parts which I thought would not fly. They are still there.

Since you were personally involved in drafting the policy, can you tell us whether any transgender people were consulted about it? What qualifies you as an expert on transgender issues? Can you tell us the proportion of women on the committees you sat in? The fact that the policy never envisions a transgender woman having completed her transition long before she takes up chess (and therefore never changing her gender with FIDE) demonstrates the ignorance of those drafting it.

This policy is misogynistic. Either it supposes that women are the intellectual inferiors of men, or it seeks to cover up the well-documented sexual abuse of women by some men within chess by supposing transgender women are instead the problem.

The reasons for the existence of women's chess are social and cultural. Women's chess originated from our exclusion from men's spaces. There is no reason whatsoever to exclude a transgender woman who is sufficiently committed to her womanhood to register F with the ECF via self-identification. There is a reason 2800-rated male grandmasters have not cynically identified female to steal prize money -- it's because each person who plays this game is deserving of their human dignity, of which being recognised in one's gender is a huge component, and no player should be asked to give that up.

[Roger de Coverly]

The fact that the policy never envisions a transgender woman having completed her transition long before she takes up chess (and therefore never changing her gender with FIDE) demonstrates the ignorance of those drafting it.

In practice neither national federations nor FIDE would know. There aren't any particular identity checks before someone is registered with FIDE by a national federation. I would think those drafting the policy would be aware of this.

[Ian Thompson]

The fact that the policy never envisions a transgender woman having completed her transition long before she takes up chess (and therefore never changing her gender with FIDE) demonstrates the ignorance of those drafting it.

In practice neither national federations nor FIDE would know. There aren't any particular identity checks before someone is registered with FIDE by a national federation.

Until someone tells them. And then what happens?

[Paolo Casaschi]

https://doc.fide.com/docs/DOC/2FC2023/C ... 3DLfgwhrhI

Thanks. I did see this in draft and, while agreeing entirely with the principle, pointed out parts which I thought would not fly. They are still there.

The fact that the policy never envisions a transgender woman having completed her transition long before she takes up chess (and therefore never changing her gender with FIDE) demonstrates the ignorance of those drafting it.

I was wondering the same: considering a transgender woman that asks FIDE for a FIN for the very first time, there is nothing in the FIDE document preventing this person to join women events. The policy seems to apply only to gender changes to the FIDE ID, not the player themselves.

If a person is legally a woman according to the laws of their country, is FIDE asking about the player’s past? Are they even allowed to ask and on what basis?

The FIDE policy seems to even discriminate among transgender people, with no explicit justification (I can guess why the policy has this form, but the rationale should be explicit and not left for people to guess); I wonder at what extent this might undermine the legality of the policy.

[LawrenceCooper]

The need for a policy of some description has been accepted for at least a year and the process has moved ahead according to schedule. It has not been rushed out.

Yes, I'm aware of that, you contacted me about it in January 2021