Carlsen resigns on move 2

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NickFaulks
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:16 pm

Paul Heaton wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:34 pm
My *guess* would be Carlsen has seen thIs list of people chess.com have banned.
Chess.com's single most valuable asset must be their blackmail list. I'm sure Carlsen made a very good deal in allying himself with them.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:17 pm

Hi Paul,

I do not have a twitter account and try no to go there.
'Reddit' I go there occasionally to nick an idea If I'm stuck a for joke. Nothing more.

He made no comment on anything else critical but he did praise Hans.
And why tell us he will be making a statement at the end of the tournament.
What else is going to say. Here is the proof Hans cheated. There is none.
Not forgetting Father has also popped up. We are witnessing a PR exercise.

Copy and paste that in Reddit and given them these two new book covers.
My next blog is due in 7 days, by then all this will be over, I can't use it.

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Stephen Westmoreland
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Stephen Westmoreland » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:26 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:28 pm
Paul Heaton wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 pm
Presumably the link being Dlugy was once cut off from a chess.com tournament.
Hi Paul,

I cannot see an underhand link there. Look how carefully Magnus chose his words.
But that part was smooth, scripted, he's been advised to slip that in so the apology will not
come out the blue. I'm sticking my neck out but that is only way this thing ends with him saying sorry.

Magnus has to wait till the end of the tournament to see how he and Hans does.
If Magnus gets knocked out sooner it will come then. An apology.
There will need to be a considerable amount of 'making up' if so. Including the points loss for the defeat and subsequent impacts on tournament play from that incident.
HDCA President

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:15 am

Stephen Westmoreland wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:26 pm
There will need to be a considerable amount of 'making up'
[/quote]

Hi Stephen,

Not too considerable, remember Magnus said nothing about cheating. He left us a meme.
It will be along the lines of misinformation and rumour and how strongly he feels regarding unfair play.
When Kaja asked him could organisers do more regarding anti-cheating. He said 'yes.'
So expect some suggested improvements indicating he thought his actions would help in this direction.

So you done it for the good of chess?

Yes!

Why did you give up your title?

Next Question

He will have to apologise to Hans for the one move insult, that may stick in his throat but it will have to be done.
Be interesting to see how it's worded. But I can see nothing but an apology.
I suspect Hans will be happy to put all this behind him and be cleared of OTB cheating.

All this reminds kind of reminds me of the Hou Yifan 5 moves incident. These chess geniuses are highly strung.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:26 am

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxyJt0uK ... Sx9w52OBwG

Some new insight (at least to me) from Fabiano that Magnus was considering withdrawing from the Sinquefield Cup from the moment that Hans was invited.

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Jon Tait
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Jon Tait » Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:46 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:16 am
the kind of subtle cheating that improves play by 50 points rather than a 1000 - indicating the comp evaluation at critical moments rather than moves
Using an engine solely as a blundercheck would improve play considerably, particularly at lower levels. For instance: I had a single season (2014/15) where I didn't make my customary mistakes in every game and went up to 221 (old grades). A few seasons later I was back down in the 190s. So to have Stockfish – not telling me any actual moves – just saying "don't play that" when required would, I'd anticipate, lead to a 200 (Elo) boost in my rating. I doubt that kind of usage could be detected, unless the absence of blunders is itself an indication.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:30 am

Jon Tait wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:46 am
So to have Stockfish – not telling me any actual moves – just saying "don't play that" when required would, I'd anticipate, lead to a 200 (Elo) boost in my rating. I doubt that kind of usage could be detected, unless the absence of blunders is itself an indication.
The Regan method supposedly uses rating as an input. So there's an implicit statement it makes that "you must be cheating, because you aren't good enough to play those moves", I consider that a flaw in the method as it seems to rule out the concept of improvement.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:44 am

Jon Tait wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:46 am
So to have Stockfish – not telling me any actual moves – just saying "don't play that" when required would, I'd anticipate, lead to a 200 (Elo) boost in my rating.
I don't necessarily disagree, but what is the mechanism by which it is telling you this?
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:30 am
The Regan method supposedly uses rating as an input. So there's an implicit statement it makes that "you must be cheating, because you aren't good enough to play those moves", I consider that a flaw in the method as it seems to rule out the concept of improvement.
Does it though? Is there anything in the method which prevents the investigator from observing improvement over time?
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Jon Tait
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Jon Tait » Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:17 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:30 am
The Regan method supposedly uses rating as an input. So there's an implicit statement it makes that "you must be cheating, because you aren't good enough to play those moves"
Rather than not good enough to play those moves, it would be more a case of not good enough not to make those mistakes. Is that the same thing?
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:44 am
I don't necessarily disagree, but what is the mechanism by which it is telling you this?
No mechanism. Just an observation from my own results. The only difference between that season and any other season is that I didn't make so many mistakes. Only anecdotal evidence obviously.
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:23 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:30 am
Jon Tait wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:46 am
So to have Stockfish – not telling me any actual moves – just saying "don't play that" when required would, I'd anticipate, lead to a 200 (Elo) boost in my rating. I doubt that kind of usage could be detected, unless the absence of blunders is itself an indication.
The Regan method supposedly uses rating as an input. So there's an implicit statement it makes that "you must be cheating, because you aren't good enough to play those moves", I consider that a flaw in the method as it seems to rule out the concept of improvement.
If so, then it is more exculpatory of Hans Niemann, as some of the suspicion comes from his swift rating rise. Like other juniors, he missed at least a year of OTB chess due to COVID, so there's an element of catch-up going on. Lock-down, and the lack of more fun alternatives to chess, would have helped concentrate chess improvement.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:52 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:44 am
Is there anything in the method which prevents the investigator from observing improvement over time?
I think rating may be one of the inputs, so if you tell the investigating software that the moves were played by a 1500 rated player, it might flag that player as needing investigation. If however you tell it that it's a 2500 rated player it doesn't.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:03 am


Keith Arkell
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Keith Arkell » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:09 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:26 am
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxyJt0uK ... Sx9w52OBwG

Some new insight (at least to me) from Fabiano that Magnus was considering withdrawing from the Sinquefield Cup from the moment that Hans was invited.
Fabi views Magnus’s motives as a selfless protest, willingly damaging his own reputation to speak out about an issue he believes is harming the chess community.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:09 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:52 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:44 am
Is there anything in the method which prevents the investigator from observing improvement over time?
I think rating may be one of the inputs, so if you tell the investigating software that the moves were played by a 1500 rated player, it might flag that player as needing investigation. If however you tell it that it's a 2500 rated player it doesn't.
Mmm but there is also human oversight, no?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Ian Thompson
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Re: Carlsen resigns on move 2

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:33 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:03 am
Continued reporting in the press.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... layer.html
I wasn't aware of this:
In 2019, the French grandmaster Sebastien Feller was given a six-month suspended prison sentence for his part in an elaborate chess fraud, with two accomplices exchanging computer data via phone text messages.
His Wikipedia entry confirms it:
On 28 May 2019, the correctional tribunal of Thionville sentenced Feller to a suspended sentence of 6 months in prison because he cheated at the 39th Chess Olympiad. According to the tribunal, his behavior instantiated the crime of "escroquerie", scam.
What's the likelihood of something similar happening in England if cheating for monetary gain was reported to the police?