Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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Dan O'Dowd
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by Dan O'Dowd » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:13 pm
I managed to reach this position in a game today, thought it might be interesting for some people to have a ponder about, and see what they'd play
Black to move, I'll go through my thoughts and what I played, and engine ideas, in a few days.
ETA: Sorry guys, forgot to mention that Black has lost castling rights
Last edited by
Dan O'Dowd on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ray Sayers
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by Ray Sayers » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:34 pm
I'd probably just castle tbh
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:37 pm
c6 and 0-0 seem to be the candidate moves. I'm not sure there's much to choose between them. Edge for Black presumably as he can develop and retain a bit of initiative. After .. 0-0, I would check Nd5, meeting this presumably with Bd8 and then White has c3. If that felt annoying, then playing c6 first is the other idea.
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Ray Sayers
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by Ray Sayers » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:22 am
Dan O'Dowd wrote:ETA: Sorry guys, forgot to mention that Black has lost castling rights
Ahh, that makes a bit of a difference then!
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Christopher Kreuzer
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by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:31 am
Ray Sayers wrote:Dan O'Dowd wrote:ETA: Sorry guys, forgot to mention that Black has lost castling rights
Ahh, that makes a bit of a difference then!
I'm wondering how Black lost castling rights and still managed to end up ahead in development (just, though the time needed to develop the c8 bishop probably factors in here as well). White has also lost castling rights, so that might explain it. Might be fun to try and work out what opening this position arose from.
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Ray Sayers
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by Ray Sayers » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:39 am
I think in general I would stick to the fundamentals already discussed, i.e. maybe Rf8, c6 then d5. Aim to develop the B on c8 and tuck the King into d7 and maybe later c7/c8.
This is just a quick general judgement though.
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Dan O'Dowd
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by Dan O'Dowd » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:48 am
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Ray Sayers wrote:Dan O'Dowd wrote:ETA: Sorry guys, forgot to mention that Black has lost castling rights
Ahh, that makes a bit of a difference then!
I'm wondering how Black lost castling rights and still managed to end up ahead in development (just, though the time needed to develop the c8 bishop probably factors in here as well). White has also lost castling rights, so that might explain it. Might be fun to try and work out what opening this position arose from.
Hehe, I can tell you that the opening was sloppy from both sides but White made the last unobservant move before the position to move was reached.
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Matt Mackenzie
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by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:19 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Ray Sayers wrote:Dan O'Dowd wrote:ETA: Sorry guys, forgot to mention that Black has lost castling rights
Ahh, that makes a bit of a difference then!
I'm wondering how Black lost castling rights and still managed to end up ahead in development (just, though the time needed to develop the c8 bishop probably factors in here as well). White has also lost castling rights, so that might explain it. Might be fun to try and work out what opening this position arose from.
I imagine there was some sort of Bxf7+ pseudo sacrifice by White??
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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James Coleman
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by James Coleman » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:24 pm
The opponent's strength, as well as the preceding play could influence the direction the game would take in such a non critical position. Moves that on the face of it might seem reasonable could suddenly suddenly start to look odd when taken in the context of the previous moves. In the absence of other information I'd probably play ...b6.
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Jonathan Rogers
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by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:44 pm
...c6, looking for ...d5 and ...Bf5. Black's two bishops really give him quite a sizeable advantage.
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Richard Bates
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by Richard Bates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:32 pm
I think a more interesting puzzle is "try and work out how this position came about"?
Obviously you need to assume that neither player has done anything too ridiculous. I decided that the white K probably went to d1 voluntarily to defend the c-pawn after black went Nd4 (as a capture?). Black bishop went to e7 to capture a white Q which had checked on the e-file and been blocked by the black Q. How the white bishop and black N left the board is more of a mystery, unless it involved Bh5+, Nxh5, Qxh5+ etc.
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AustinElliott
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Contact:
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by AustinElliott » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:44 pm
Given that Black can't castle, getting the BK away from the e-file looks a good aim, together with developing the Black QB (and ultimately QR) and keeping the white knight from causing mischief by Nd5 threatening c7.
Given that, ...c6 looks the choice as a multi-purpose move - stops Nd5, prepares ..d5 and Bc8 out, and makes a nice spot for the Black K on c7. I would be thinking that an ideal piece development for Black would be (after ..c6 and ..d5) QB on f5 or g4, and rooks on f8 and e8, with the K tucked away on c7.
Last edited by
AustinElliott on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Richard Bates wrote:I think a more interesting puzzle is "try and work out how this position came about"?
A Vienna seems possible. The sequence 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Qh5 Nd6 5. Qxe5+ Qe7 6. Qxe7 Bxe7 would get the queens off and the Bishop to e7. I haven't figured out how the Bc4 and Ng8 were removed from the board along with loss of castling.
