My Story

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: My Story

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:11 am

Sabrina Chevannes wrote:Carl, I just want to add: I can't help but feel victimised once again, that you moderated my post, but not those that have slagged me off. It shows a double standard on your moderation part and implies that what they have to say is more important than what I have to say. The way that you treat people differently, when you pick and choose to, reminds me of something.... that's it - you should work for the ECF!
What can you object to the bit I removed?

Please just report any posts you object to with the red exclamation button and one of the moderators will review
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: My Story

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:51 pm

Sabrina Chevannes wrote: I would just like to say, Carl, that I find it unfair that you have moderated my post and everyone who says we should hear the other side of the story. This IS the other side of the story. I wrote this post in response to all the crap that has been written about over the years and the attacks I have received. I have not responded to any of it (since the Burke incident anyway) and tried to rise above it all.
I don't want prolong this thread as I don't think it will do anyone any favours. However as I was the person who made the `other side of the story` comment I'd like to reply.

I was not aware of any of the incidents Sabrina referred to until her post and I find it sad that somebody who clearly has so much energy and enthusiasm to offer should be driven out of chess. That is why I would like this to be investigated and see if something can be salvaged. I'd certainly like to know whether the emails were sent by people of substance within chess or by rank and file players with nothing better to do than complain.

My point is that many of us (including myself) jumped to the wrong conclusion about the T shirt incident until it became apparent what the real truth was. What conclusion would we have formed in Mureck if we'd simply believed the version of efforts reported in the national press?

Some things Sabrina says surprise me slightly. Others (particularly ageist, racist attitudes within chess) do not surprise me at all.

And finally I read the unmoderated original post and I must admit that the edit Carl made is not immediately obvious.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Alan Burke

Re: My Story

Post by Alan Burke » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:25 pm

As Chevannes has decided to include myself in this discussion (and yes, I only use her surname as she has done of me), I will just say that if she wants to go, then so be it !

I would have thought that after a private conversation I had alone with Chevannes at Sheffield in 2011 (instigated by myself in order to resolve the whole issue), the matter would have been laid to rest with goodwill on both sides, but obviously one of us still wishes to resurrect the matter whenever they feel it might be beneficial to promote their own agenda.

John Moore
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Re: My Story

Post by John Moore » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:52 pm

Alan I am sure we would all wish Sabrina the best in the future, what ever the previous arguments.

David Pardoe
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Re: My Story

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:32 pm

Irrate Parent v Tournament Controller.. Oh dear.. I think I get the picture.
Stewart, could I suggest you might have a quiet word with these two people, `off aire` and lets see if some kind of amicable peace can be restored.
Can we please have just a semblence of goodwill and certeousy here....

Sabrina, take heart from the kind words of support you have received from people here.

The UK chess mad house really does not do itself any favours with these sorts of incidents.
And we really do need to give our volunteer organisers the fullest of support and encouragement, and particularly those of the younger generation.
For those who criticise our officials... Can I just draw your attention to `match of the day` where, with the benefit of slow motion replay, it is amazing just how often a referee `appears` to get it wrong. Such things happen..
But I do not want to pre judge or meddle in any of this...
What is important is that a true sence of good sportsmanship should prevail.
BRING BACK THE BCF

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: My Story

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:06 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Irrate Parent v Tournament Controller.. Oh dear.. I think I get the picture.
Stewart, could I suggest you might have a quiet word with these two people, `off aire` and lets see if some kind of amicable peace can be restored.
Can we please have just a semblence of goodwill and certeousy here....
I'm not sure this is the crux of the issue and Stewart (Reuben presumably) has nothing to do with it.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: My Story

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:21 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Irrate Parent v Tournament Controller.. Oh dear.. I think I get the picture.
Stewart, could I suggest you might have a quiet word with these two people, `off aire` and lets see if some kind of amicable peace can be restored.
Can we please have just a semblence of goodwill and certeousy here....

Sabrina, take heart from the kind words of support you have received from people here.

The UK chess mad house really does not do itself any favours with these sorts of incidents.
And we really do need to give our volunteer organisers the fullest of support and encouragement, and particularly those of the younger generation.
For those who criticise our officials... Can I just draw your attention to `match of the day` where, with the benefit of slow motion replay, it is amazing just how often a referee `appears` to get it wrong. Such things happen..
But I do not want to pre judge or meddle in any of this...
What is important is that a true sence of good sportsmanship should prevail.
Amidst all the emotion ... David Pardoe again provides comic relief! :D

David Pardoe
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Re: My Story

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:44 pm

Jonathan,
If you`ve got any constructive suggestions to make, by all means put them forward...
Yes, I dont know the background to all this, and clearly the particular bit I`ve picked up on above may just be the tip of an iceberg.
An assist (of some sort..), from an experienced and `neutral` corner might help.... who do you suggest.
BRING BACK THE BCF

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: My Story

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:50 pm

I admit that I don't see an obvious way forward in this situation, other than to wish Sabrina a steady recovery. I did raise in another thread the point that the ECF needs a Code which applies to all members and perhaps - just perhaps - if we already had one, Sabrina could have referred to the panel some of the abusive communications to which she refers. I can probably understand why she hasn't wanted to involve the police, and I would have thought that seeking a sanction within the chess community would have been better all round, if only it had been possible.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: My Story

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:23 pm

I haven't posted as soon as I would have liked, as I'd been busy with the Big Slick tournament but I have to admit that one of my reasons for resigning from the board was the treatment of Sabrina. It is horrible to see someone with such enthusiasm, charisma and undoubted ability at coaching, organising and playing have it all drained out of her and I really wasn't comfortable being part of a board that contributed to this. I am pleased to see the postings in support of her especially as I have always felt that there was a silent majority that appreciate everything she does and I hope that I have the chance to work with her again in the future.

David Pardoe
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¬

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:29 pm

Jonathan...
You want a code of conduct... I see that as a near impossibility to actually draft something with the necessary conditions and specifics to cover all the various possibilities.
Words such as `reasonable conduct is expected at all times`, and significant digressions from this will be dealt with on a case to case basis, might be a starting point.
All I do know is that being a junior organisor and tournament controller could be a potential nightmare of a task, even for a very experienced head...or team.
Many parents just dump there kids off, and expect an unpaid childminder service, if not full social services support, for some of the bratts that turn up. Many, of course do behave impeccably, ...much better than the parents in many cases.
As a county captain for several years in Manchester, I can only describe our juniors as an excellent group, generally speaking, and there conduct has been a great credit to chess.
The other problem is that many parents are seemingly reluctant (or unable), to contribute towards costs, and are looking for subsidies in many cases. Yes, it would be nice to provide some level of support, and I guess the Robinson Funds do provide some useful assistance, as one avenue. Many chess bodies will also offer support when requests are made.
If Sabrina has fallen foul of this and incurred personal losses, maybe something can be done to address this.
Yes, I hope she takes a well deserved summer break, and can then hopefully take stock and move forward.
Such an enthusiastic and positive person should certainly be able to find a career path out there in our great world of opportunities.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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John Clarke
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Re: My Story

Post by John Clarke » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:02 am

Louise Sinclair wrote:Do you honestly think The British are better. The outbursts greeting the death of Margaret Thatcher were disgustingly sexist with terms like witch being bandied freely.
I wasn’t trying to imply that the British are better, and I don’t believe it either. But the anti-Gillard sentiment was sustained over a lengthy period, often personal (aimed at her appearance, mannerisms and chosen life-style), and plain nasty even by the standards of the anti-women brigade. Here in NZ, Helen Clark by comparison got a pretty easy ride, despite also opting not to have children.
Brendan O'Gorman wrote:Perhaps you might wait a lot longer if they're going to be at the same level as Bunch of primitives, those Ockers.
Fair cop, Brendan. That comment was a bit over-inclusive, and not really meant to apply to the Australian people as a whole. But I stand firmly by it as regards Australian politicians. Their standards of probity and personal conduct have long left a lot to be desired. The virtual banana-republic dictatorship that was allowed to exist in Queensland a generation ago could never have occurred in any other Western-style democracy.
Andrew Zigmond wrote:Some things Sabrina says surprise me slightly. Others (particularly ageist, racist attitudes within chess) do not surprise me at all.
I was wondering when someone would have the gumption to introduce the “r” word into this debate explicitly. Knowing the possible ramifications, and being outside of the scene myself, I hesitated to do so. But if you hadn’t done it, Andrew, I would have had to pluck up the nerve by this time.

Finally, may I join all the others who have wished Sabrina a speedy and sustained recovery from her illness, and express my hope that she will sooner rather than later find a rewarding and honoured place in UK chess.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: My Story

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:29 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:I haven't posted as soon as I would have liked, as I'd been busy with the Big Slick tournament but I have to admit that one of my reasons for resigning from the board was the treatment of Sabrina. It is horrible to see someone with such enthusiasm, charisma and undoubted ability at coaching, organising and playing have it all drained out of her and I really wasn't comfortable being part of a board that contributed to this. I am pleased to see the postings in support of her especially as I have always felt that there was a silent majority that appreciate everything she does and I hope that I have the chance to work with her again in the future.
This is new information and I think we need a bit more detail. To say that this forum is not the place is the understatement of the year but the comments concerning the current junior director concern me,
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Geoff Chandler
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Re: My Story

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:04 am

"This is new information and I think we need a bit more detail."

This from Lawrence says it all. No more details be added.

"...but I have to admit that one of my reasons for resigning from the board was the treatment of Sabrina. "

Sabrina's post(s) come across as a cry for help from a confused young women who simply
could not understand why she has been ridiculed, obstructed and insulted.

To be honest neither could the rest of us but anyone who had any doubts just need
to see Lawrence's post to realise something stank to high heavens.

Lawrence does not strike me as a guy who would resign a post on a whim.

More details would bring denials and lines getting drawn in the sand as the sides line up.

There will be no winner just one loser, Sabrina.

The lass has been through a mill and you can tell by her posts the she had enough and it's made her ill.

I've no idea how one continues from here, infact I don't think it should continue.
Wounds will be inflicted that will never heal.

I'm thinking Carl should ask Sabrina if he can delete this entire thread.
Not to pretend we never saw it, but for her sake.

It won't be a mud slingning contest, mud washes off after a couple of days.
Rocks will be hurled and these things hurt and leave a scar.

It's up to you Sabrina, we have seen what you wrote, we won't forget.
But this matter is best dealt with a board level. Not in an open air forum.
Wait till you are better and less fragile, then put forward a well worded formal complaint.

I hate getting all serious and acting adult but in my opinion you should close it down.

---------------------------end of adult bit----------------

And less of this:

"I am too old to get jobs elsewhere..."

Come on mate, don't say this about yourself.

You are still young, I'm 62 today!!, that's not old, I'll never be old.

You have excellent communication skils and the experience to back it up.
You cannot buy that or get taught it in a classroom.

You also have a wonderful creative mind.
Put a quarter of the energy you put into Junior Chess into any work place and you will on £40,000+ a year within no time.

Your C.V. will get you into most interview rooms, yours will be too interesting to dismiss.
99% of the applicants never even get an answer.
Once there and they get a dose of your personality and enthusiam you will be in.

And as for debts. (a shrug the shoulders) I'm up to my 62 year old eyelids in debt.

If a metorite was heading towards Edinburgh the Government would move me out first.
If I go down I'll be taking the British Economy with me. :P

(OK it's really no laughing matter but I worry more about what I am going to play v The London System than who I owe money too. )

So no more of this head down and I'm now worthless stuff.
It's not you.

Richard Bates
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Re: My Story

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:21 am

I know it is a standard response in threads of this type for people to chip in and encourage with "keep your head up and carry on", "don't leave!" etc but i think it should be borne in mind that Sabrina states that her experience has driven her to serious illness. Regardless of whether the actions of others are to blame for this (in part or in whole), I personally would not encourage anyone to continue doing something in a way or to the extent that it results in serious illness if they have any choice. And despite what Sabrina writes, i would certainly hope that 26/27 is not too old to engage on alternative career paths.

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