Reliably beating strong GM's is a very high profile thing to do. Some will of course be after that instead of pure money
Chess Player Strip Searched
-
MartinCarpenter
- Posts: 3180
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Well if you're determined and after money you'd very likely do best to cheat just enough to win some grading category prizes in the big american opens and the like. Very low profile too, no need to cheat as resolutely etc. Probably not even getting onto live board transmission and so not databases and very limited ways to check via statistics anyway.
Reliably beating strong GM's is a very high profile thing to do. Some will of course be after that instead of pure money
Reliably beating strong GM's is a very high profile thing to do. Some will of course be after that instead of pure money
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Good tip! 
-
Jonathan Bryant
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Sounds like a job for James Randi. I can't imagine it'd be too taxing for a semi-decent conjurer. Remember that they make they're living pooling the wool over eyes that are staring straight at them. That's hardly the case in 'normal' tournament conditions - although I accept that once somebody comes under suspicion people will be taking a close interest.PeterFarr wrote: Picking up on something Jonathan Bryant said, it might be good to see a professional magician take a look at the Ivanov case; or perhaps ask a few magicians to try to construct their own cheating methods in tournament conditions.
[edit: a friend asks how much prize money would theoretically be available for such an enterprise. Does anybody know what first prize was at the Dortmund Open,?]
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
-
MartinCarpenter
- Posts: 3180
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Plenty, but with super GM tournaments you'd first have to earn the invite first over the course of a few years of what would be very high profile play and may very well be caught first. WC Matches are huge amounts of course, but you'd have to be very good indeed to cheat in one of those.
The world open (a big open in America(the biggest?)) seems to have grading section prizes of ~13k dollars. A couple of others I looked at were more like 1/2k each. Slightly higher in the top section. You do have to wonder if those lower level prizes can possibly survive the potential impact of this sort of thing.
Aeroflot is seemingly about 10k dollars for winning it, but to do that you'd have to get past a lot of very strong GMs.
The world open (a big open in America(the biggest?)) seems to have grading section prizes of ~13k dollars. A couple of others I looked at were more like 1/2k each. Slightly higher in the top section. You do have to wonder if those lower level prizes can possibly survive the potential impact of this sort of thing.
Aeroflot is seemingly about 10k dollars for winning it, but to do that you'd have to get past a lot of very strong GMs.
- Greg Breed
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:30 am
- Location: Aylesbury, Bucks, UK
- Contact:
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Why do they always think that a big American event is therefore entitled to be called a "world" something...MartinCarpenter wrote:The world open (a big open in America(the biggest?))...
Hatch End A Captain (Hillingdon League)
Controller (Hillingdon League)
Controller (Hillingdon League)
-
Mick Norris
- Posts: 11368
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Concerning report from the WC yesterday by Chessvibes
https://www.elance.com/j/morse-chess-an ... /36790227/
referring to this which is blatantThe organizers were not the only ones who were relieved that all 127 players were inside the playing hall two minutes before the start of the round. Because of the threat of zero-tolerance, it seemed that many players had indeed decided to come a bit earlier, but to get everyone in something had to be sacrificed: again, journalists and spectators were not checked. It would still have been very easy for us to bring a mobile and assist players with gestures (or even worse: give it to a player when arbiters are not looking. Apparently that morse phone thing has been on someone's mind since January.)
https://www.elance.com/j/morse-chess-an ... /36790227/
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
Stewart Reuben
- Posts: 4566
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
- Location: writer
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Greg Breed >Why do they always think that a big American event is therefore entitled to be called a "world" something...<
Bill Goichberg called his event the World Open in the early 1970s, or late 1960s. It was, of course, a marketing ploy. It was held in NY, but for many years has been in Philadelphia. Nobody challenged the name then and now it is too late. If FIDE started a World Open Championship, Bill would be entitled to seek an injunction in my view.
The 3 events that could justifiably claim the title are:
World Open: About 100 GMs but that is 2 rounds a day and little more than a weekend Swiss. There are subsidiary sections so presumably the median rating is quit high. July
Capelle Le Grand: About 100 GMs in a field of 600, but the tail is very weak. February
Tradewise Gibraltar: 50+ GMs, including some 2700+ and relatively few weak players. It is the premier open tournament for female players. January-February.
Aeroflot was hugely strong, but the top section never open. February-March.
Gibraltar has much higher rating prizes than anywhere else in Europe. There has been no suggestion of electronic cheating there. (Naturally some complaints about sandbagging, possibly justified.) The layout of the venue would make it a nightmare to undertake electronic surveillance. .
Bill Goichberg called his event the World Open in the early 1970s, or late 1960s. It was, of course, a marketing ploy. It was held in NY, but for many years has been in Philadelphia. Nobody challenged the name then and now it is too late. If FIDE started a World Open Championship, Bill would be entitled to seek an injunction in my view.
The 3 events that could justifiably claim the title are:
World Open: About 100 GMs but that is 2 rounds a day and little more than a weekend Swiss. There are subsidiary sections so presumably the median rating is quit high. July
Capelle Le Grand: About 100 GMs in a field of 600, but the tail is very weak. February
Tradewise Gibraltar: 50+ GMs, including some 2700+ and relatively few weak players. It is the premier open tournament for female players. January-February.
Aeroflot was hugely strong, but the top section never open. February-March.
Gibraltar has much higher rating prizes than anywhere else in Europe. There has been no suggestion of electronic cheating there. (Naturally some complaints about sandbagging, possibly justified.) The layout of the venue would make it a nightmare to undertake electronic surveillance. .
-
David Sedgwick
- Posts: 5252
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
- Contact:
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
That's not correct. As one of the arbiters, I've dealt with two cases personally. Both allegations were quite unfounded.Stewart Reuben wrote:Gibraltar has much higher rating prizes than anywhere else in Europe. There has been no suggestion of electronic cheating there.
-
Chris Rice
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
There's a tournament coming up in Blagoevgrad and a certain someone wants to play in it. The forum has discussed before and the concensus seemed to be to let him and then prove he's cheating. The source of the letter, written to the ECU President I haven't verified but it would seem extremely plausible (sorry if the translation is a bit dodgy):
Dear Mr. Danailov!
I am writing you this letter , addressing both personal to you, in your capacity as President of the Bulgarian Chess Federation , President of the European Chess Union , Member of the Presidential Council of the International Chess Federation and President of Continental Europe , and also through you and all Bulgarian players and the entire chess community in Bulgaria.
Dear Mr. Danailov in a protocol decision of 21.05.2013g the Board of the Bulgarian Chess Federation I was punished with a "temporary suspension from participation in competitions under the auspices of the BCF for a period of 4 months as the continuous media coverage and other events that were incompatible with sporting ethics, undermining the prestige of the BCF and chess figures as a whole. "
Dear Mr. Danailov With this letter I wish to express my deep regret for the words spoken by me in TV programs and interviews, which I realize now that I have offended the honor and dignity as well as specific, quoted me by Bulgarian players and the Bulgarian Chess Federation and the entire Bulgarian chess community. As a result, with my punishment imposed I was able to think calmly and with hindsight and I find my behaviour completely objectionable , according to international standards for playing chess and ethical standards, which is why I personally want you to please accept my sincere apologies , and on behalf of all Bulgarian players and the entire chess community to accept my apologies to them. My performances with the media were the result of emotional affect, caused by unfair and baseless accusations at me for using illegal means during chess games . However , I realize that this is not an excuse for my unsportsmanlike and measured response in the media. I would like to stress that what I say is only the fruit of my reaction front line of defense and in any case I do not think spoken by me mildly offensive statements. I'm sorry I let myself attack and insult Bulgarian chess players and chess figures and again my deepest apologies for this, and I hope you accept my apologies .
Dear Mr. Danailov Reasons to come to some of my media appearances were made to me due to allegations of using someone else's computer or human assistance in conducting chess games . These accusations that are currently replicated by some persons but not in any way supported by the evidence. Simple reason that I know for myself that I was using solely their own abilities, it made me do not pay particular attention to the time by which the result of my not measured media appearances to get to my punishment . At present, again I want to say that I find the use of any foreign assistance during the chess session extremely ugly act and among others a phenomenon in chess (and sports in general ) - agreeing result - for things should be condemned always and anywhere be found and should use their best efforts to combat them . In this regard, I reiterate my readiness to assist the Bulgarian Chess Federation to clear my name , and hence the name and reputation of the Bulgarian Chess Federation and the whole Bulgarian chess . I dare say that my wins in international chess tournaments , however modest they may be, in the interest of improving the image of the Bulgarian chess and I would be honored to be able to continue to work on my chess skills.
Dear Mr. Danailov Once again I want to emphasize that I'm sorry, repent and apologize for my behavior to the media. My punishment already played a role , as made me rethink things and know that I do not want to lead any confrontation with Bulgarian Chess Federation - the organization which indirectly belong for my love of chess nor individuals of Bulgarian chess of which I was taught in school now and that I admired. Therefore, without an ounce of hypocrisy I would like to thank you and the members of the Management Board of the Bulgarian Chess Federation for the professional attitude towards my case. I hope as farsighted people with much richer experience of my life to let a young chess player to develop and carry chess victories for Bulgaria.
Dear Mr. Danailov Please by you this letter to go out to the entire Bulgarian chess community. Thanking you in advance, I wish you successful management of Bulgarian and international chess, especially in your endeavor to introduce chess as a compulsory subject in schools. I wish you health! Sincerely ! FM Borislav Ivanov Blagoevgrad
Dear Mr. Danailov!
I am writing you this letter , addressing both personal to you, in your capacity as President of the Bulgarian Chess Federation , President of the European Chess Union , Member of the Presidential Council of the International Chess Federation and President of Continental Europe , and also through you and all Bulgarian players and the entire chess community in Bulgaria.
Dear Mr. Danailov in a protocol decision of 21.05.2013g the Board of the Bulgarian Chess Federation I was punished with a "temporary suspension from participation in competitions under the auspices of the BCF for a period of 4 months as the continuous media coverage and other events that were incompatible with sporting ethics, undermining the prestige of the BCF and chess figures as a whole. "
Dear Mr. Danailov With this letter I wish to express my deep regret for the words spoken by me in TV programs and interviews, which I realize now that I have offended the honor and dignity as well as specific, quoted me by Bulgarian players and the Bulgarian Chess Federation and the entire Bulgarian chess community. As a result, with my punishment imposed I was able to think calmly and with hindsight and I find my behaviour completely objectionable , according to international standards for playing chess and ethical standards, which is why I personally want you to please accept my sincere apologies , and on behalf of all Bulgarian players and the entire chess community to accept my apologies to them. My performances with the media were the result of emotional affect, caused by unfair and baseless accusations at me for using illegal means during chess games . However , I realize that this is not an excuse for my unsportsmanlike and measured response in the media. I would like to stress that what I say is only the fruit of my reaction front line of defense and in any case I do not think spoken by me mildly offensive statements. I'm sorry I let myself attack and insult Bulgarian chess players and chess figures and again my deepest apologies for this, and I hope you accept my apologies .
Dear Mr. Danailov Reasons to come to some of my media appearances were made to me due to allegations of using someone else's computer or human assistance in conducting chess games . These accusations that are currently replicated by some persons but not in any way supported by the evidence. Simple reason that I know for myself that I was using solely their own abilities, it made me do not pay particular attention to the time by which the result of my not measured media appearances to get to my punishment . At present, again I want to say that I find the use of any foreign assistance during the chess session extremely ugly act and among others a phenomenon in chess (and sports in general ) - agreeing result - for things should be condemned always and anywhere be found and should use their best efforts to combat them . In this regard, I reiterate my readiness to assist the Bulgarian Chess Federation to clear my name , and hence the name and reputation of the Bulgarian Chess Federation and the whole Bulgarian chess . I dare say that my wins in international chess tournaments , however modest they may be, in the interest of improving the image of the Bulgarian chess and I would be honored to be able to continue to work on my chess skills.
Dear Mr. Danailov Once again I want to emphasize that I'm sorry, repent and apologize for my behavior to the media. My punishment already played a role , as made me rethink things and know that I do not want to lead any confrontation with Bulgarian Chess Federation - the organization which indirectly belong for my love of chess nor individuals of Bulgarian chess of which I was taught in school now and that I admired. Therefore, without an ounce of hypocrisy I would like to thank you and the members of the Management Board of the Bulgarian Chess Federation for the professional attitude towards my case. I hope as farsighted people with much richer experience of my life to let a young chess player to develop and carry chess victories for Bulgaria.
Dear Mr. Danailov Please by you this letter to go out to the entire Bulgarian chess community. Thanking you in advance, I wish you successful management of Bulgarian and international chess, especially in your endeavor to introduce chess as a compulsory subject in schools. I wish you health! Sincerely ! FM Borislav Ivanov Blagoevgrad
-
Chris Rice
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Borislav Ivanov appears to have been given the green light to play in the Grand Open Blagoevgrad 2013 which starts on Saturday (28/9). http://chess-results.com/tnr108160.aspx
-
Mick Norris
- Posts: 11368
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Latest from Ken Regan
http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2013/09/1 ... woods-law/
http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2013/09/1 ... woods-law/
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
Geoff Chandler
- Posts: 3815
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
- Location: Under Cover
- Contact:
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Latest from Ken Regan...
Now I really am confused.
Are the top marbles players using computers to cheat?
Now I really am confused.
Are the top marbles players using computers to cheat?
-
Paul Dargan
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 11:23 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Our ' hero' moved smoothly onto 2/2 with wins against much weaker opponents - then was White on Bd1 v's the top seed (Saric. 2627) 1/2-1/2 can't find live games so not sure whether they played a game or not. Also this from the tounramnet FB page - so at least they're trying.
ATTENTION!!!:
The organizers of Grand Open Blagoevgrad wish to inform all potential participants of the following measures that will be taken and rules that will be applied during the tournament:
1.The use of any cell phones or other electronic gadgets by the players will be strictly forbidden on the playing ground.
2. The use ot cell phones or other electronic devices by the guests is not advisable and the organizer will take measures if they do so to be outside the hall - they will be ask by the guards to leave the hall.
3. Two pieces of radio, gsm,wireless signal muting devices ( jammers or radio silencers ) will be installed in different areas on the playing hall.
4. The area where the parties are held will be surrounded with restriction strap and only the players will be allowed access to the playing tables.
5. Prior to entering the playing ground zone every player will leave all his possessions to the guards provided in individual plastic bag, like cell phones, electronic gadgets, watches, pens, sunglasses, tiaras, keys and so on, anything that is not needed during the game.
6. Writing devices will be supplied to everyone by the organizers.
7. Prior to entering the playing ground zone the players will be searched with a metal detector by the guards for the presence of unauthorized or suspicious objects in them, if any are found will be left over at the guards.
8. Once during a game of chess a player may ask a new search to be conducted on his opponent and if electronic devices are found he will be removed from participating in the tournament any more. If any other suspicions objects are found the main arbiter may decided whether to dismiss the participant form playing or not.. If nothing is found the player who asked for the search owes an apology.
9. Other appropriate measures will be taken to prevent cheating, which become necessary under the circumstances during the tournament and some will be implemented without the knowledge of the participants.
The above rules are only in addition to all the rules of FIDE for holding chess events for which the chief arbiter of the tournament and his assistants are responsible to make sure they are followed.
Paul
ATTENTION!!!:
The organizers of Grand Open Blagoevgrad wish to inform all potential participants of the following measures that will be taken and rules that will be applied during the tournament:
1.The use of any cell phones or other electronic gadgets by the players will be strictly forbidden on the playing ground.
2. The use ot cell phones or other electronic devices by the guests is not advisable and the organizer will take measures if they do so to be outside the hall - they will be ask by the guards to leave the hall.
3. Two pieces of radio, gsm,wireless signal muting devices ( jammers or radio silencers ) will be installed in different areas on the playing hall.
4. The area where the parties are held will be surrounded with restriction strap and only the players will be allowed access to the playing tables.
5. Prior to entering the playing ground zone every player will leave all his possessions to the guards provided in individual plastic bag, like cell phones, electronic gadgets, watches, pens, sunglasses, tiaras, keys and so on, anything that is not needed during the game.
6. Writing devices will be supplied to everyone by the organizers.
7. Prior to entering the playing ground zone the players will be searched with a metal detector by the guards for the presence of unauthorized or suspicious objects in them, if any are found will be left over at the guards.
8. Once during a game of chess a player may ask a new search to be conducted on his opponent and if electronic devices are found he will be removed from participating in the tournament any more. If any other suspicions objects are found the main arbiter may decided whether to dismiss the participant form playing or not.. If nothing is found the player who asked for the search owes an apology.
9. Other appropriate measures will be taken to prevent cheating, which become necessary under the circumstances during the tournament and some will be implemented without the knowledge of the participants.
The above rules are only in addition to all the rules of FIDE for holding chess events for which the chief arbiter of the tournament and his assistants are responsible to make sure they are followed.
Paul
-
Ian Thompson
- Posts: 4253
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
I wonder how many entrants they lost as a result of these extreme measures?Paul Dargan wrote:5. Prior to entering the playing ground zone every player will leave all his possessions to the guards provided in individual plastic bag, like cell phones, electronic gadgets, watches, pens, sunglasses, tiaras, keys and so on, anything that is not needed during the game.
-
Richard Bates
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Prior to entering the playing ground zone every player will leave all his possessions to the guards provided in individual plastic bag, like cell phones, electronic gadgets, watches, pens, sunglasses, tiaras, keys
It also seems to represent the end for the lucky pen!