Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begins

[Angus French]

Angus, is it possible you are being Anglo-centric? The difference between Memorandum and Memorandum of Understanding my have a different meaning in different countries.

I think the two things are distinct. A Memorandum of Understanding indicates some sort of agreement, albeit without legal standing, between two or more parties; a Memorandum (without qualifier) is, I think, something less formal and could just be a note.

[NickFaulks]

Dear chess fans,
As some days ago I was mentioned in this forum by Nigel Short, in relation to a meeting with Nigel Freeman in Bucharest last October, I would like to put things right.
Here are some clarifications about that meeting: we did not have beers, I had a coffee and NF had one juice (or water?!). He was not gleeful, he was rather tired because of his international trips. I am not only a delegate of Romanian Chess Federation, but also European Chess Union vice-president. So, what kind of FIDE plans, one can imagine we could then discuss – the FIDE Executive Director and ECU vice-president? The idea related to Nigel Short (yes, it was one), was one personal belief of Nigel Freeman, something like, even if the vote is of course secret, “Nigel will vote only if his opinion is the same as the English Chess Federation’s decision”, in other words, he will not put himself in the situation to vote if he will not agree the ECF decision, whatever that will be. I hope I expressed myself clear, but this was the topic in our discussion which looked nice and fair for me, and which is in opposite of what Nigel Short unfortunately believes it was discussed.
I am sorry for revealing this private discussion and that sort of gossip, but it would be a pity now not to clarify this topic and not to put things right and respectfully for Nigel Short and Nigel Freeman respectively.
All the best!
Ion Serban Dobronauteanu

There have been no comments on this psot. I find that a shame, since for me it is a throwback to the appalling NIC piece on Khanty.

In each case, a private conversation between two parties is reported as though the writer had been present. Here a reference to beer drinking is thrown in to add a bit of colour, and the story is set running. It doesn't matter that the parties insist that the words were not spoken, nor the beer consumed - there were by definition no witnesses, so it's one person's word against another. The story is "out there", and will in due course become established as a valid element of the wider discussion.

[Roger de Coverly]

There have been no comments on this psot. I find that a shame, since for me it is a throwback to the appalling NIC piece on Khanty.

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... 25#p131535

When Nigel first stood as FIDE Delegate, it was put to him that he had previously expressed a number of opinions contrary to the perceived wisdom of British chess. He did however reply that as Delegate he was representing the ECF and if the issues arose he would have to support whatever position the ECF as a body was advocating.

You have to remember that Kirsan apologists or even FIDE apologists are few and far between in the inner circles of English chess, Andrew Paulson may well be in a minority of one, although the ECF Board have been silent on this and many other issues for at least three months.

[Roger de Coverly]

It's interesting to revisit Nigel's interview posted 14th October 2013. He alleges that Agon could benefit members of the FIDE Presidential Board. Did he know something, such as sight of the Agon/Kirsan draft agreement, the rest of us didn't?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6UtU78p ... e=youtu.be

I'm fairly amazed by a twitter flame war between Angus French and the Kasparov camp. Clive Rice attempted to corroborate the ownership of Agon against public documents in Jersey but only got the FIDE story. There may be more to it of course, but a demonstration of whether or why the Jersey documents don't show the true potential beneficiaries of Agon is needed.

In the absence of sponsorship, I would have thought Agon has negative net worth. It has, at least on paper, liabilities to pay FIDE, but no source of funds.

[Chris Rice]

It's interesting to revisit Nigel's interview posted 14th October 2013. He alleges that Agon could benefit members of the FIDE Presidential Board. Did he know something, such as sight of the Agon/Kirsan draft agreement, the rest of us didn't?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6UtU78p ... e=youtu.be

I'm fairly amazed by a twitter flame war between Angus French and the Kasparov camp. Clive Rice attempted to corroborate the ownership of Agon against public documents in Jersey but only got the FIDE story. There may be more to it of course, but a demonstration of whether or why the Jersey documents don't show the true potential beneficiaries of Agon is needed.

In the absence of sponsorship, I would have thought Agon has negative net worth. It has, at least on paper, liabilities to pay FIDE, but no source of funds.

Showing your age there Roger. Its been a long time since I used to get constantly called Clive Rice after the famous South African cricketer!

It was an interesting Twitter exchange between Angus and Mig Greengard. Angus pointing out quite rightly that the draft memo between Agon and Kirsan was a proposal and not statement of fact and Mig Greengard's response was to say basically that chess players haven't learned the lessons of the past bringing up Tarasov and FIDE Commerce as examples of how Kirsan is the common element.

Funnily enough yesterday I was looking at the 2009 FIDE Executive Board minutes which show discussions on the failure of Global Chess BV and the fate of its successor. In these minutes KI basically states that this is the first time in 14 years that FIDE has broken any of its commitments and how KI has spent a lot of his own money trying to find large scale business men who would invest into chess with him. The first effort was the creation of FIDE Commerce in London with a Mr Tarasov. He and Tarasov opened an office in London and organised quite a few events. The expenses were $4 million, but this effort failed as FIDE Commerce did not bring any extra sponsorship. FIDE Commerce was then closed and KI states that Mr Tarasov still owed him around $500,000.

Fetch Punxsutawney Phil because its Groundhog day again.

[JustinHorton]

It was an interesting Twitter exchange between Angus and Mig Greengard. Angus pointing out quite rightly that the draft memo between Agon and Kirsan was a proposal and not statement of fact and Mig Greengard's response was to say basically that chess players haven't learned the lessons of the past bringing up Tarasov and FIDE Commerce as examples of how Kirsan is the common element.

Although unless I mistake myself, what the Kasparov camp in claiming doesn't actually stack up on the information they've so far presented, does it?

[Chris Rice]

Just seen this on the Susan Polgar site:

Gary Kasparov wants Croatian citizenship
Croatian Times

Former world chess champion Gary Kasparov has placed a request to get Croatian citizenship. The Russian chess Grandmaster known for politically opposing Russian president Vladimir Putin, now expects a reply from Croatian authorities, daily newspaper Slobodna Dalmacija reveals. Gary Kasparov has in the past often spent his holidays in southern Croatian town of Makarska. Besides opposing the policy of Vladimir Putin in Russia, Gary Kasparov is a candidate for the president of World Chess Federation.

Source: http://www.croatiantimes.com

[John McKenna]

JustinHorton(Tue.)>... What a weird mirror-quality (Kasparov-Leong/Kirsan-Paulson) the contest has taken on...<

That's rather apt because we're through the looking glass here, people, ever since the unorthodox game of courier "Bill Warth" (seen hot-rodding in Southern Califoria's dry lakes pre-WWII) started the ball rolling.

One bigger question is - will this whole campaign be reduced to one Stalingrad-like battle fought around the single bone of corruption? Or will it be extended to other fronts, as time goes by? (Even as I write I see from what's posted immediately above - reported by our correspondent in Arabia, Mr. Chris Rice, who heard it from the Voice of America - it looks like it's moving to Croatia.)

[Mick Norris]

Thanks, I'll heep hacking away then. The road from here to Tromso will be interesting even though, as a dispassionate bookmaker, I think Kasparov / Leong needs a couple of snookers. It's possible to see where they might come from.

Nick

Can you enlighten us?

I assume the Russian Chess Federation has influence with some other chess federations, but I have no idea how much and how many - the RCF is clearly supporting Kirsan (or anti-Kasparov if you prefer)

Also, how much influence do governments have on chess federations and/or FIDE Delegates? Obviously none in the case of the ECF, but elsewhere?

If I was FIDE Delegate and my PM rang me to say that the Russians were threatening to cut off gas supplies to our country if we voted for Kasparov, I suspect I wouldn't vote for him even if I thought he was the best candidate

Or have I been reading too many novels?

[JustinHorton]

Just seen this on the Susan Polgar site:

Gary Kasparov wants Croatian citizenship
Croatian Times

Former world chess champion Gary Kasparov has placed a request to get Croatian citizenship.

Didn't he pick up Latvian citizenship just the other day?

Anatoly Karpov used to collect stamps.

[Chris Rice]

Just seen this on the Susan Polgar site:

Gary Kasparov wants Croatian citizenship
Croatian Times

Former world chess champion Gary Kasparov has placed a request to get Croatian citizenship.

Didn't he pick up Latvian citizenship just the other day?

Anatoly Karpov used to collect stamps.

Latvians refused the request "for the time being" last November. http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131114/184697143.html

[Stewart Reuben]

Mick Norris >Also, how much influence do governments have on chess federations and/or FIDE Delegates?<

That is too big an ask. Each federation would need to be considered separately. Some federations are so small, the delegate pays his own way and is virtually the federation.

[Chris Rice]

If I was FIDE Delegate and my PM rang me to say that the Russians were threatening to cut off gas supplies to our country if we voted for Kasparov, I suspect I wouldn't vote for him even if I thought he was the best candidate

Or have I been reading too many novels?

There is some merit in what you say Mick. Yesterday the New York Times ran an article about how Kasparov supporters are being refused entry into the Sochi Olympic venue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/world ... world&_r=0

The relevant paragraphs are:

The Olympic passport, actually an identification badge that fans wear on lanyards, is one of several security precautions the Russian authorities have devised to minimize the risk of a terrorist attack at the Games, which start Friday.

On Friday, a fan pass was denied, without explanation, for Aleksandr Baturin, a member of the opposition Solidarity political party, which had supported the presidential bid in Russia by the former chess champion Garry Kasparov.

[Roger de Coverly]

Some federations are so small, the delegate pays his own way and is virtually the federation.

If there's an election is it not the case that one or other of the campaigns will offer a "grant" to travel expenses? The suggestion at this election is that the "grant" from the Kasparov side will be greater than the Kirsan side. The democracy of FIDE is like the democracy of the UK before the 1830s, rotten Boroughs etc.

[Roger de Coverly]

The first effort was the creation of FIDE Commerce in London with a Mr Tarasov. He and Tarasov opened an office in London and organised quite a few events. The expenses were $4 million, but this effort failed as FIDE Commerce did not bring any extra sponsorship. FIDE Commerce was then closed and KI states that Mr Tarasov still owed him around $500,000.

It think it's known that Kirsan was both an owner and financial backer to FIDE Commerce. That contrasts to Agon where both are denied.

I don't think anyone looked too closely at how FIDE Commerce was set up and financed, particularly with no alternative candidates for the Presidential election of 2002.

There would seem at least three possibilities for the financing of such an entity, namely one that would run events and aim to get third party sponsorship income on the back of them.
(1) the money is regarded as a gift, donation or initial sponsorship. Obviously there is no expectation of a direct payback and the investment will be written off anyway if no third party income materialises.
(2) the money is regarded as a loan, to be repaid when the Company is well established and trading profitably.
(3) the money is regarded as an equity investment, namely that the initial stakeholders expect to profit from their investment, both by dividend payments and increase in value of their initial stake.

There's a parallel to BrainGames of the same era. I've never really known whether BrainGame investors thought they were getting (3) or whether they were financing (1) in such a manner that could give them tax relief against Capital Gains.

Similarly with FIDE Commerce. There should be no objection to (1) and perhaps (2), but (3) would have been abducting the property of the international organisation to the personal benefit of its President and his associates.