British Junior Championships

[Susan Owens]

Have the British Junior Championships ever been held at a different time to the other British sections ?

I have a chess playing daughter who has entered the past 5 years of the British Junior events, but since she started playing when she was 8 years old, I notice that as the top players get older many of them play in other sections, or you don't see them at all. Why is this ?
Is there a problem with the prestige of the junior event or is there something else which affects juniors entering their correct age group section ?
Surely, this should be the event that all juniors want to enter.
I know this would mean a great deal of organisation, cost and time but wouldn't this be beneficial to the status of the junior event.
You would be limited to the six week school holiday still. This fact is important as many of us combine our yearly holiday with the event, and then the venue could also be better suited to the needs of families eg seaside resort. I think those of us who have to consider the needs of all family members can't always devote the time and money to accommodate just one chess playing family member.
There would also be a chance to consider the clash with any other junior international events eg the junior event is at the same time as the European Union Youth championships again.
PS
Be gentle with reply - written by non-chess playing concerned parent

[Greg Breed]

Enthusiastic juniors often enter more than one section if they run alternately, e.g. An Under 12 Section and an Under 120 Graded section.

[Neill Cooper]

There is always a tendency for strong juniors to 'play up', by age and grade. When I played in the U21 championships (abolished long ago) the best U21s were playing in the main event. The same is true of the British Championship - not many of our best grandmasters enter it! You'd find even with a separate junior event that they would not enter, so whist it is a nice idea I don't think it would work. But you could try asking the players directly, to see if they would be interested.

[Nigel Wright]

I think it has to do with strength of opposition and grading. The juniors want a challenge, and as there are more "stronger" Adults than there are "stronger" juniors, the Adult sections are ideal. Also, juniors want to get their grades as high as possible, and they aren't going to get a decent grade playing against stupidly under-rated or unrated juniors.

[Susan Owens]

I agree stronger junior players want good opposition and playing up in age or grade is the way to get it - but there are many events and many congresses that this can be done in. If the other British sections were separate from the junior event, then juniors would have the opportunity of both events.

Don't you think that the British Junior Championship should be the place where juniors want to meet their peers across the board, a tournament where junior players want to play in their own age group, a tournament where victories aren't devalued by the lack of entries and quality of opposition and where a championship title has some status for the holder.

Perhaps I am reading too much into the 'British' title of it. It would probably help if I saw it as just another tournament - all be it one with a high entry fee, higher than the usual accommodation cost, but with a higher purse at the end of it if successful.

[Nigel Wright]

Yeah, the cost is probably an issue for parents, and especially when prizes are far from guaranteed. Okay, it's good prize money, but juniors can have very erratic form at times, I know, as I've managed to beat some current England players from that erratic form, and who will win the prize money is anybody's guess, therefore is it worth the risk and expense of it all? I know it's not all about the money, I'm only ever interested in being able to enjoy myself, plus I've never been good enough to get anywhere near prize money at a graded tournament, but other people don't necessarily think like that...

[David Shepherd]

In some ways I think it is good to have tournaments spread accross the different age groups (including adults) in the same place at the same time as it allows natural progression. If the John Robinson Grand Prix continues it will be interesting to see how it impacts on the tournament entries (it was announced too late to have any impact on last years championship).

[Susan Owens]

If the John Robinson Grand Prix continues it will be interesting to see how it impacts on the tournament entries (it was announced too late to have any impact on last years championship).

The John Robinson Grand Prix is an excellent incentive for English players, and it may well increase entry into the various events. It will hopefully reward those juniors who show enthusiam and committment, without necessarily getting the grade.
I note that points scored in the British Championships are given the highest recognition so it will be interesting to see if it has an effect on entries. You are also awarded additional points for playing up.

I still think though, that this is the one tournament where juniors should want to play in their own age group, and I think it would be valued a lot more on a playing level, if entrants knew they were going to be facing their true rivals.

[IM Jack Rudd]

I know last year's British clashed with a prestigious junior event abroad, which is why several strong juniors such as Ankush Khandelwal and Amisha Parmar were missing.

[Nigel Wright]

Yeah, being a friend of Ankush, I think he is part of the future of English Chess. We need to make players like him want to play in home tournaments, and to give them reason for wanting to support English Chess.

[IM Jack Rudd]

I think, actually, that the current system makes it more, not less, likely that the strong juniors will play in the British junior championships. They're going to want to be playing in the British Championship or Major Open anyway, and so will be on the scene for the junior events.

[Nigel Wright]

That is, until something better, more glamorous comes along...

[Paul Stimpson]

Sue,

I notice that as the top players get older many of them play in other sections, or you don't see them at all. Why is this ?

Unfortunately it's been like this for a very long time. Normally one player in an age group becomes far stronger than his/her peers and is forced to seek out stronger opponents. If you are 11 or 12 years old and rated 140 or 150 there isn't much prestige in winning an event where most of your rivals are barley up to 100 grade.

And although the Junior British should be a land mark event for all players even this is affected by this syndrome.

Don't you think that the British Junior Championship should be the place where juniors want to meet their peers across the board, a tournament where junior players want to play in their own age group, a tournament where victories aren't devalued by the lack of entries and quality of opposition and where a championship title has some status for the holder.

The problem becomes worse as the children get older. Because players drop out along the way, the pool of strong juniors gets smaller and smaller. Most of these players will have faced each other many many times over the years and would not want to increase that likelyhood in an age banded event, hence they move up and out to bigger events.

As you rightly state the downside to all this is a devalued event and a lack of quality opposition. I guess there is no easy answer to this because as I stated earlier it has been happening for decades. I am sure the ECF would like a better more meaningful Junior Championships (at the higher age groups) so the solution is not an easy one if there is a solution at all.

[Alan Ruffle]

Dear Sue

I refer you too my submissions and relevant debate under-

World Youth.
English Junior Championships/Selection Tournament
Poll re the above
British Championships which can be found under General Chat

Yours sincerely

Alan Ruffle

[James Pratt]

I am surprised that I could not answer parts of Mrs Owens's questions without hurrying away to my archives first.

The British Junior Events, U-21, 18, 16 and 14 - nothing younger - first got run alongside the British in 1956, the Under 11s got added in 1975 because of Nigel Short, who promptly did not even win the title anyway, and that in his home county of Lancashire! These events were largely 11 round, two week affairs, held in the mornings.

Nobody would have dreamt of playing in two tounaments, let alone playing in the Major Open. I remember the late ID Wells sitting next to me in the Under 18s when he was 'knee high', but basically players played within their ages groups, limits, and the play (I believe) probably suffered.

At Morecambe 1975 sellotape was placed over the word 'BOYS' and the event just called 'British Under 16s': merger - another thread altogether - came later. In that dim, antedeluvian, pre-Steinitzian era, the wheels of progress, the winds of change, may have been slow but we may not have known it.

Stewart Reuben arrived in 1981 and gave permission for the English Chess Explosion to begin.

One day I will write its history.

James Pratt (Basingstoke!)