Div 3 North 2016-17

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
MartinCarpenter
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:11 pm

Well, thinking about the pool system the basic point is that the top teams play 4 bottom seeded teams, then 3 top seeded team in their group and 4 from the other group. So 4 weak + 7 strong.

You can basically replicate that fairly easily - just play preseeded top vs bottom seeded matches for four rounds, then turn the Swiss pairings on after that. I guess we effectively already do this for the first two rounds, if for different reasons.

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:39 pm

Ok up to a point, which is you don't know in advance who all the weakest teams will be - I can guess MM 1st team will be strong and our 4th team weak, but where our 2nd and 3rd teams will fit in I'm not sure about

You just want to make sure that the half a dozen contenders for the 2 promotion spots actually play each other, but it won't be easy to avoid this happening before the final weekend

I think you just start for weekend 1 with the Swiss, picking your triangular match carefully, but drawing the head to head Sunday matches on the Saturday night rather than choosing them in advance, and then see where you are for weekend 2

EDIT - let's hope for a 16th team :D
Last edited by Mick Norris on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Truran
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:02 pm

The 2016-17 rules on the website actually seem to be amusingly precise about this, but quite possibly wrong - they've not changed at all from the 2 divisions 8 thing last season and I can't see any provision for a smaller/larger Div3N. Oh well. (Rule 7.1)
Thanks for drawing this to our attention. It seems that despite our best collective efforts it wasn't the final version of the rules that got uploaded to the website. That should be fixed soon. :oops:

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:37 pm

We have a 16th team (if my maths is correct)

3Cs 3

Build it and they will come - well done to Mike and everyone at the 4NCL

We have 4NCL North graduates in Div 1 (NE England) and 2 (Alba, SoA A and Bradford A) too - NWRA as we used to say at University
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Mike Truran
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mike Truran » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:14 pm

Yes, based on our earlier PMs (and email exchanges with others) it looks very much like 16 teams.

Next question - if that's indeed the case, 2 x 8 or Swiss? We do intend to consult with captains, but early views welcome.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:45 pm

2 x 8 for me I think - 11 rounds of swiss for 16 teams gets rather strained.

Neil Graham
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Neil Graham » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:11 am

Division Four was a nightmare last year when teams dropped out. It is almost impossible to run an 11 Round Swiss with 16 teams without the pairings jamming up - in the last 2 rounds last year Ashfield-Breadsall 2 played the top team Sussex Martlets 2 in Round Ten followed by the bottom team Barnet Knights 3 in Round 11. So 2 x 8 please!

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:25 am

Same format as last year please
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Tim Harding
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Tim Harding » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:44 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Some very good news - Gonzaga, our very first team from Ireland, will be playing in Division 3 North this coming season.
And I expect them to get promoted!
Tim Harding
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Leonard Barden
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Leonard Barden » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:29 am

Tim Harding wrote:
Mike Truran wrote:Some very good news - Gonzaga, our very first team from Ireland, will be playing in Division 3 North this coming season.
And I expect them to get promoted!
Gonzaga College won the Eton College Rapidplay earlier this month ahead of many of England's best school teams. Last autumn they won the Millfield team international ahead of Manchester Grammar.

Their star player is FM Conor O'Donnell (2343) who was Ireland's top scorer in the Olympiad at Baku with 6/9 on Board 4. The team has also enlisted Ireland's Board 2 FM Stephen Jessell (2367).

And: "French team captain GM Sebastien Maze (2602) has joined the club team. He flies in for several weekend matches".

This may make for an interesting season in Division 3 North....

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:22 am

It is always interesting

Last season Alba appeared likely to win every match but faltered at the end

A strong Irish team will be welcome as will Ashfield Breadsall and both should challenge the usual suspects for the 2 promotion spots
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Tim Harding
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Tim Harding » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:15 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Tim Harding wrote:
Mike Truran wrote:Some very good news - Gonzaga, our very first team from Ireland, will be playing in Division 3 North this coming season.
And I expect them to get promoted!
Gonzaga College won the Eton College Rapidplay earlier this month ahead of many of England's best school teams. Last autumn they won the Millfield team international ahead of Manchester Grammar.

Their star player is FM Conor O'Donnell (2343) who was Ireland's top scorer in the Olympiad at Baku with 6/9 on Board 4. The team has also enlisted Ireland's Board 2 FM Stephen Jessell (2367).

And: "French team captain GM Sebastien Maze (2602) has joined the club team. He flies in for several weekend matches".

This may make for an interesting season in Division 3 North....
I expect there will only be a couple of school students playing for Gonzaga in the 4NCL: Conor O'Donnell and 13-year-old Henry Li who just won the City of Dublin Championship.
Gonzaga have won Ireland's main league for the last two seasons (the Armstrong Cup, first played in the mid-1880s) and GM Maze did play in three of their matches although they certainly didn't need him and I doubt he will play for them in the 4NCL.
Their usual top board is IM Sam Collins but he plays for one of the English teams in 4NCL division one. Gonzaga will also send a team to the European Club Cup but it won't be their strongest possible team.

I should add that Stephen Jessel (2016 Irish Champion) already has his norms for the IM but needs to get his rating up to 2400.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
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Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:21 pm

Neil Graham wrote:Division Four was a nightmare last year when teams dropped out. It is almost impossible to run an 11 Round Swiss with 16 teams without the pairings jamming up - in the last 2 rounds last year Ashfield-Breadsall 2 played the top team Sussex Martlets 2 in Round Ten followed by the bottom team Barnet Knights 3 in Round 11. So 2 x 8 please!
Neil

Where roughly should your 2 teams be in the seedings, do you think?

I'd assume the others would be roughly:

Gonzaga
Cheddleton 2
Manchester Manticores 1
3Cs 2
Spirit of Atticus B
Manchester Manticores 2
Bradford DCA Knights B
Manchester Manticores 3
Manx Liberty
Bradford DCA Knights C
Holmes Chapel
Jorvik
3Cs 3
Manchester Manticores 4
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Mike Truran
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:18 pm

Looking good for 17 teams now. :D

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2016-17

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:23 pm

Really, who would be number 17?
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