Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:23 pm

Julie Denning wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:04 pm
I agree entirely with your reading of the wording, which implies that for the second vote to be any different to the first, some delegates will have had to switch their votes. This is why I discussed it with Malcolm, who gave me his understanding, as I reported previously, that the lowest scoring candidate in any vote dropped out for the next vote - but I agree that this is not obvious from the wording of the Regulation.
I am hoping to obtain something more definitive that Malcolm's best guess.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:25 pm

It seems to me that the rules are reasonably clear that the contest is simply rerun if none of the three candidates have more than 50%. The only reason why we are used to the third candidate dropping out is that we are accustomed to expect the winner necessarily to have more than 50%, but it is quite possible to keep all three candidates if the winner can then simply have the most votes of all three.

Why rerun it in that case, you might ask? Perhaps it would all be much closer than expected, and some delegates might switch when they see the first round results. Perhaps the third candidate, previously a rank outsider, might have finished so close to the other two that there would be a switch towards him in the second round, especially if some supporters for the top two candidates were always half hearted, might think their candidate has peaked and would rather switch to the outsider, the candidate with momentum, than see their hitherto main rival win.

Unusual, perhaps, but at any event, surely not as ridiculous as some seem to think.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:49 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:25 pm
Why rerun it in that case, you might ask?
I suppose the voters are also being asked to confirm they wish a President to be elected by a minority of the electorate.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:24 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:25 pm
Unusual, perhaps, but at any event, surely not as ridiculous as some seem to think.
The question is whether this interpretation, if correct, is what was intended. If it isn't, then a lot of top-priced legal hours were wasted.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:39 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:20 pm
It looks as though Makropoulos may have lost the support of both France and Poland in one day.
He could only offer the post of Deputy President to one person, so there wasn't much to be done.

shaunpress
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by shaunpress » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:59 pm

re my comments about Tromso on the previous thread.

In terms of organisation and meeting management, the Election for President may well have been the high point, even if that point wasn't very high (having three different people running the meeting at the same time was a significant issue). The other elections (for Ethics, Verification etc) ran on for far too long, and the whole thing ended in farce as Jorge Vega instructed the Americas delegates (sans US and a few others) to stay away on the final day, so that there wasn't a quorum and important changes to the Laws of Chess etc weren't formally passed.
The whole purpose of the GA in 2014 was to make absolutely sure that Kirsan Ilyumzhinov was elected to run FIDE for the next 4 years, and having expended a considerable amount of energy to do that, the FIDE executive lost interest in the rest of the proceedings. If such an attitude is repeated in 2018 then I can only see chaos.

On the the matter of electoral regulations, I agree with the interpretation that if a second ballot is required, all candidates are still in the running, but they just need the most number of votes (a plurality rather than a majority). In private discussions I've had with one of the tickets, the question of who to vote for on the second ballot has already come up.

IanCalvert
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by IanCalvert » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:24 am

After Malcolm Pein's excellent piece in Chess, I think the ECF should:

(i) most importantly, somehow welcome Russia withdrawing support from Kirsan, long overdue

(ii) indicate that the ECF will probably support a loser.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:20 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:24 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:25 pm
Unusual, perhaps, but at any event, surely not as ridiculous as some seem to think.
The question is whether this interpretation, if correct, is what was intended. If it isn't, then a lot of top-priced legal hours were wasted.
Well, the interpretation accords with the actual words, which are not themselves ambiguous and do not lead to obviously absurd results. One would normally look at the intention of the legislator only if the words were ambiguous or the results absurd. For discerning the "true intention" is often far from straightforward, since you need to look not only at the intention of the drafters of the rules but also of those who passed them. Untangling the present rules because something different was intended would seem to be an astonishing thing to do in the heated context of rules for deciding the Presidency - not that I would necessarily bet against it happening anyway.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:38 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:20 pm
Untangling the present rules because something different was intended would seem to be an astonishing thing to do
If I had wished to suggest that I would have done so. I was merely making the point I made.

In any case, from what Shaun has told us it is likely that there would be tactical voting in the event that the first round was not conclusive.

Tim Harding
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Tim Harding » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:13 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:22 pm
Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:19 pm
Come on Nigel; beef up your team while there is still time.
He has done that.

https://twitter.com/nigelshortchess

...
I have voted for Nigel now. I have nothing against Malcolm but not so keen on Makropolous.
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

David Robertson
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by David Robertson » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:31 pm

ECF has nominated Nigel Short for FIDE President. Joined by USA, NZ, Nigeria, Poland & Finland

https://twitter.com/nigelshortchess

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:55 pm

Well I'm pleased to see we're following through on our commitment to women in chess
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Angus French
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Angus French » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:01 pm

FIDE has published details of the submitted Presidential tickets.

Dvorkovich's ticket is nominated by 13 Federations, Nigel's by 6 and Makro's by... 64.

There are also details of the candidates for the Continental Presidential elections. One candidate - for the Asia continent - is Ignatius Leong though there are some issues with his candidacy.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:18 pm

Angus French wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:01 pm
There are also details of the candidates for the Continental Presidential elections.
Zurab unopposed for Europe. Is Malcolm on that slate as well?

David Sedgwick
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:29 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:18 pm
Zurab unopposed for Europe. Is Malcolm on that slate as well?
No. That is not allowed, so he dropped out when he linked up with Makropoulos.

See http://www.europechess.org/ecu-circular ... -no-22018/ for Azmaiparashvili's ticket.

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