Female Player Rule

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Sean Hewitt

Female Player Rule

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:06 am

The captain's meeting discussed the problems that many teams now have playing a female player. A number of ideas were mentioned including relaxing the Div1 rule to be the same as Div2 (ie you can play a junior instead), scrapping the female rule in Div2 (to free up female players to play in Div1), making playing a female optional but awarding a bonus game point if you do, and scrapping the female player rule altogether.

No decision was made, but the matter will be considered again before next season, especially as there were quite a few defaults again last weekend.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:26 am

I remember this is technically called the "One player of each gender" rule, rather than the "Female Player Rule". :wink:

Women and juniors should be allowed to play in Division 1 or 2 if they're good enough to play in Division 1 or 2, not because there's a rule that says you have to have one.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:59 am

Sean,
Many thanks for raising this issue. In principle, I believe that the current rules are correct. It cannot be a bad thing to have at least one female in each team. It simply provides a better image for chess. However, I think we have to recognise two things

1. The 4NCL is the single most important event in British chess. Whilst it has been in existence British Womens' chess has not improved (it may even have gone backwards).

2. Our better female players are getting the opportunity to take part in the League, but they are often getting poor quality games (or, as Sean points out, no games at all!)

In view of these factors, I think it is only right that the 4NCL goes back and considers the rules. It might not be a bad thing to a have a season without the 'female player rule' just to shake some female players out of complacency, so they weren't guaranteed a place in the league.

Alan Walton
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:15 am

Hi,

I have got to agree with the comments from Matthew

Like Matthew has said suspending the rule as a test and let the females play in the open market may indeed give them a necessary boost. This would mean they start playing players of similar strength in the lower divisions, resulting in the reduction of the massive mis-matches and creating a more competitive league

Also, it gets away from the situation of some of them blackmailing teams with unnecessary condition requests, some of them are asking nowadays for expenses and costs to be covered, with some even asking for conditions itself. I have heard of a 150 graded female player wanting conditions.

It seems unfair that us amatuer players have pay out of our own pocket, when some weaker female players are getting paid for playing because of the restrictive rule imposed by the 4NCL

Alan

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Ben Purton
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Ben Purton » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:25 am

It adds a new dimension to the league, I quite like the female player rule.

I feel the one thing that needs to be addressed is this re adjustment of the 80 point rule.

I have some players gaining 30-40 points and others losing a similiar amount. I would like to play my inform players in my core team(Sambuca 1). Its heavily restricting my chances to win the league.

I think it should be optional to choose FIDE or ECF and thats for the season.

Some players such as Simon in my team, are performing at 190+ ecf but there fide cant catch up. He should be in my 1st team, instead hes in my 3rd team and he frankly loses through sheer lack of caring for being there.


I dont think the weather was an excuse this weekend for the defaults and it was clearly exploited by teams. My team are majority from Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire etc.

We had 4 reserves and full teams. The snow was literally all but melted Saturday Morning after quite a warm friday night.

Ben
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:35 am

Alan Walton wrote: Also, it gets away from the situation of some of them blackmailing teams with unnecessary condition requests, some of them are asking nowadays for expenses and costs to be covered, with some even asking for conditions itself. I have heard of a 150 graded female player wanting conditions.

It seems unfair that us amatuer players have pay out of our own pocket, when some weaker female players are getting paid for playing because of the restrictive rule imposed by the 4NCL

Alan
More than just "seems" unfair, it is unfair.

That situation implies that the female players aren't too interested in playing in the 4NCL without having the conditions applied to it. My worry is that by paying them all to turn up, has it crossed the line of encouraging female participation, and entered the realm of forcing people to play who don't want to be there?

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Ben Purton
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Ben Purton » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:50 am

And having the junior rule wouldnt give the parents equal negotiating power........I mean really.
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
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Ben Purton
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Ben Purton » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:50 am

Have a good team spirit and people play for the team. If they need conditions then your doing something wrong.
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

Ola Winfridsson
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Ola Winfridsson » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:00 pm

A female player graded 150 asking for conditions sounds more like not being terribly keen on playing chess full stop, let alone in the 4NCL.

Alan Walton
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:50 pm

Hi,

I think the female inclusion rule would work if the pool of players were equally matched

But unfortunately currently there is quite a spread between the top players and the rest, and the stronger / well funded teams seem to have multiple female players in their lists thus reducing the lower teams chance of getting a competitive female player in their squads

When 3Cs had a team a few years ago, to remain competitive and try to achieve promotion, we had to go abroad to find a female player (eventually getting the Kosteniuk sisters first, then getting Dutch players in). This cost alot of money, and also it doesn't really improve English (British) female chess

Maybe, outside the top female players, maybe excluding the likes of Ketevan, Harriet and Jovanka who are good enough in their own right, having some kind of draft system where the next strongest 16 players are each team and they play each other (or higher if rating allows), with some kind of funding to renumerate these players.

Alan

Ian Thompson
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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:09 pm

Alan Walton wrote:But unfortunately currently there is quite a spread between the top players and the rest, and the stronger / well funded teams seem to have multiple female players in their lists thus reducing the lower teams chance of getting a competitive female player in their squads
Where you have teams that have the best female players and some other not quite so strong women, why do those not so strong players choose to play for that team? They must know they are second choice players who will not play regularly, so why do they not prefer to play for some other team where they would be the first choice female player?

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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:33 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:They must know they are second choice players who will not play regularly, so why do they not prefer to play for some other team where they would be the first choice female player?
Maybe they have > 1 team, perhaps in D3? In which case, the female players can get games in D3 on merit, but also can fill in for the D1 if they need to, and a male player can be found much more easily for the D3 team in such an emergency.

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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Hmmmm....

Mathew Turner quote:

"The 4NCL is the single most important event in British Chess."

English Chess. Scotland runs it's own succesful NCL.

I know some of the Scots lad drop South to play in it but
the English NCL is barley mentioned North of Newcastle.

(And I doubt if the 4NCL overshadows The British Championship.)

Now if you are a 'supposed' potential sponsor reading this then
please do not be off by what follows. I am expressing a free opinion
and it usually goes cock-eyed with everyone else's.

The 4NCL is over-rated.

The rules appear to have drawn up by a Civil Servant chasing a bonus.

CHESS turns over 70% of it's mag to these games. I dread these 4NCL editions.

There is nothing more boring than grade conscious players
playing team chess (sod the team, save the grade, I'm getting a draw).

Aagaard & Greet do their best but it must be a thankless task
shifting through some of these games.
And when they do hit a beauty you can sense their relief.
"At last something I can get teeth into."

Change the rules:
Play who you want to play in a team and make the games ungraded.

That would stop all this petty arguing and produce some good,
unshackled by fear, games.

Hmmmm....

Ben Purton quote 1:

"He should be in my 1st team, instead hes in my 3rd team and he frankly
loses through sheer lack of caring for being there.

Ben Purton Quote 2:

"Have a good team spirit and people play for the team."

Sorry for having a wee nit-pick Ben but these two don't quite match up.

If you have some lad losing though sheer lack of care because he cannot
get a higher board due to some obscure rule.
Then that cannot be beneficial to team spirit nor is it playing for the team.

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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:07 pm

Geoff,
There are many things that Scottish Chess has to be proud of and Scottish congresses are almost uniformly better than English ones. However, to compare the SNCL with the 4NCL is frankly ludicrous. The 4NCL has the best players from across Europe, the SNCL does not even attract the best Scottish players.
This weekend saw Bacrot vs Adams - magnificent, Hebden vs Baburin - inspirational. Nothing to compare with that in the rest of Britain.

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Re: Female Player Rule

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:04 pm

Hi Mathew.

I was not a making a comparison.

That would be unsound as I have only played in the SNCL
and not the 'English' one.

So to compare one event in which I have played in against
an event in which I have not played in is rather silly.

So Mathew how many times have you played in the SNCL? :wink:

My point was the 'British' tag.

"The 4NCL is the single most important event in British Chess."

Four Nations League...and yet one Nation is that interested in it,
it has decided to run it's own National League.

I'll give you English Chess. It may well be. If you think so.

I always thought the British Championship was the flagship of British Chess.
I know it's run by England etc etc. But it's open to 'British' players only.

This 4NCL has, as you pointed out, many non-Brits playing for it.
So it should be called: The Multi-Nation Chess League.

And then we recall that lad, in this same thread, who is marooned in Division III
because he cannot get a shot at the higher boards and we read again.

""The 4NCL is the single most important event in British Chess."

It looks like the most important event in British Chess is denying BRITISH players
the chance to excel and improve their play by allowing in foreign players and thus
denying boards to British players.

So ".....the single most important event in British Chess."
is actually holding back the progress and development of British chess players.

Way to go boys.

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