Hi Mr Barden,
I also thought after looking at the game that the story is true but it must be a different game.
Hi David,
Najdorf was a great mid game talker. His games autobiography is littered with anecdotes from him discussing positions.
There is little doubt this kind of thing went on and I suspect quite a few of us have seen off board game discussions
When I smoked and was outside having a puff I'd sometimes hear advice being given.
On one occasion I witnessed one lad telling someone (player A) the best theoretical continuation.
A few minutes later Player A's opponent appeared and asked the same lad the best move to play against the move he had just suggested.
Todays Chess Quest.
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Geoff Chandler
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Leonard Barden
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Re: Todays Chess Quest.
No. I already thought of that and looked at Tal's games with the other Soviet competitors at Amsterdam, and none of them were anywhere near the description. It's a false story.Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:15 amHi Mr Barden,
I also thought after looking at the game that the story is true but it must be a different game.
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Todays Chess Quest.
Hi Mr. Barden.
I'm inclined to go along with it as I cannot see a valid reason why Kapengut would mention it. Him and Tal were friends.
" Kapengut was transferred to the Baltic Military District for the remainder of his military service. No sooner had he arrived
in the Latvian capital than he took part in a traditional blitz tournament, where he shared 1st-2nd place with Tal.
The organisers suggested a 4-game match to resolve the question of 1st place; this took place, and was duly won by
Kapengut… Thus began many years of friendship between the two players; in Kapengut’s own words, whenever he was
in Riga, he would almost always visit the ex-World Champion."
https://dgriffinchess.wordpress.com/201 ... -kapengut/
I'm thinking it was a different game and Kapengut (or even Tal) has maybe the year and place wrong.
I'm guessing GM Serper read the article, found the game and posted it without isolating the position on the board 'that promised a lot of blood. '
I have not seen the original Kapengut article, if Kapengut too gives the 1964 game then what follows is wrong.
Stein played Tal in Round one in Moscow 1967. A draw. Pachman was also there and it looks more feasible and could explode.
It actually reaches a position from Keres - Smyslov USSR Ch.1955
...with the difference h3 and Rb8 had been played
Postion from Tal - Stein 1967 game.
(h3 a waiting move allowing Rb8 to setup all kinds of tricks? or as most likely, I'm off on the wrong track.)
The Stein - Tal game (Stein was White in 1967 which puts me off as the first glance tricks I can see come from White.)
Moscow 1967 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=79435
I'm inclined to go along with it as I cannot see a valid reason why Kapengut would mention it. Him and Tal were friends.
" Kapengut was transferred to the Baltic Military District for the remainder of his military service. No sooner had he arrived
in the Latvian capital than he took part in a traditional blitz tournament, where he shared 1st-2nd place with Tal.
The organisers suggested a 4-game match to resolve the question of 1st place; this took place, and was duly won by
Kapengut… Thus began many years of friendship between the two players; in Kapengut’s own words, whenever he was
in Riga, he would almost always visit the ex-World Champion."
https://dgriffinchess.wordpress.com/201 ... -kapengut/
I'm thinking it was a different game and Kapengut (or even Tal) has maybe the year and place wrong.
I'm guessing GM Serper read the article, found the game and posted it without isolating the position on the board 'that promised a lot of blood. '
I have not seen the original Kapengut article, if Kapengut too gives the 1964 game then what follows is wrong.
Stein played Tal in Round one in Moscow 1967. A draw. Pachman was also there and it looks more feasible and could explode.
It actually reaches a position from Keres - Smyslov USSR Ch.1955
...with the difference h3 and Rb8 had been played
Postion from Tal - Stein 1967 game.
(h3 a waiting move allowing Rb8 to setup all kinds of tricks? or as most likely, I'm off on the wrong track.)
The Stein - Tal game (Stein was White in 1967 which puts me off as the first glance tricks I can see come from White.)
Moscow 1967 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=79435
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Todays Chess Quest.
There's another Tal-Stein game from 1967 in a Soviet team competition.
Being a Marshall with the trendy, at the time,15. Re4, that could also be a candidate. Until the outlandish 15. .. g5 was established as the best defence, some writers claimed 15. Re4 as a refutation of the Marshall.
Being a Marshall with the trendy, at the time,15. Re4, that could also be a candidate. Until the outlandish 15. .. g5 was established as the best defence, some writers claimed 15. Re4 as a refutation of the Marshall.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Todays Chess Quest.
I wonder if you can see any problem hereGeoff Chandler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:01 pmI'm inclined to go along with it as I cannot see a valid reason why Kapengut would mention it....I have not seen the original Kapengut article
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Todays Chess Quest.
Hi Roger,
I saw that game but was looking for an event where Pachman was present. But all this now seems pointless.
When discussing it with Mr Barden I was going to add it could be a Tal joke but then thought why would Kapengut not say so.
But it could have been a Tal joke.
I trawled through all the source thread (phew!) looking for where I may find the original source article, found this.
Kapengut said in the article that Tal told him that story himself, but several years later, Kapengut told Tal's story
to Alexander Konstantinopolsky, and the latter said, "It's not true. I was there, and they played for real."
But Tal was a master of tall (Tal?) tales. There's a famous story about a teenage Tal trying to get to Botvinnik's
dacha at the Riga coast and play some games, and being turned down. Tal invented it himself, and would later say,
"Yes, I told the story myself. I wrote about it myself. But it never happened, because I made it all up!"
https://www.chess.com/article/view/the- ... aws?page=6
Pity, I was looking for a slam dunk that Tal had to avoid so as not to have won position.
No problem with pre-game agree draws. Did a few myself to go home early or hit the pub sooner, never any money involved.
It was the mid game chat that was bit off and it's looking like it never happened during that game.
Although now looking at it, a bit far fetched, but if anyone happened to make up the Miles vs Christiansen, 1987
pre-game draw leading to the Zapata vs Anand 1988 and a six move loss. Nobody would believe it.
The Quest ends. (good fun though. Enjoy digging into games looking for things. Have corrected the wrong scores in
quite a few wrong PGN's over at chess games especially games before auto-boards when PGN's were entered by hand.)
I saw that game but was looking for an event where Pachman was present. But all this now seems pointless.
When discussing it with Mr Barden I was going to add it could be a Tal joke but then thought why would Kapengut not say so.
But it could have been a Tal joke.
I trawled through all the source thread (phew!) looking for where I may find the original source article, found this.
Kapengut said in the article that Tal told him that story himself, but several years later, Kapengut told Tal's story
to Alexander Konstantinopolsky, and the latter said, "It's not true. I was there, and they played for real."
But Tal was a master of tall (Tal?) tales. There's a famous story about a teenage Tal trying to get to Botvinnik's
dacha at the Riga coast and play some games, and being turned down. Tal invented it himself, and would later say,
"Yes, I told the story myself. I wrote about it myself. But it never happened, because I made it all up!"
https://www.chess.com/article/view/the- ... aws?page=6
Pity, I was looking for a slam dunk that Tal had to avoid so as not to have won position.
No problem with pre-game agree draws. Did a few myself to go home early or hit the pub sooner, never any money involved.
It was the mid game chat that was bit off and it's looking like it never happened during that game.
Although now looking at it, a bit far fetched, but if anyone happened to make up the Miles vs Christiansen, 1987
pre-game draw leading to the Zapata vs Anand 1988 and a six move loss. Nobody would believe it.
The Quest ends. (good fun though. Enjoy digging into games looking for things. Have corrected the wrong scores in
quite a few wrong PGN's over at chess games especially games before auto-boards when PGN's were entered by hand.)