British Championship Congress 2019

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Nigel White
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Nigel White » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:55 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:19 am
In which case parents and spectators need to be kept in a designated areas as much as possible or prevented from using electronic devices outside of that area (at Torquay spectators were warned about the use of phones). At Torquay I felt provisions for this were excellent; there were separate toilets for players and a fast lane for players to buy refreshments without entering the analysis area. This isn't the case in every venue but then again these venues were hardly built specifically for chess events and sometimes the logistics don't make this possible.

While, as Andrew says, at Torquay the provision of separated areas was excellent, the enforcement of it left a lot to be desired.

The area immediately outside the playing halls had notices requesting silence and no mobile phone use, both of which were continuously ignored. On one occasion, when playing close to the entrance, I complained to an arbiter about noise from this area - the solution was to temporarily shut the doors.

Also while there was a fast track refreshment lane, there was no attempt to ensure that players only used this lane rather than venture into the main canteen area. That said, one day I noticed someone was sitting on the floor using a laptop actually in the fast track lane.

Last year at Hull there were venue staff attempting to ensure silence in relevant areas, which I didn't see in Torquay.

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Jon Tait
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Post by Jon Tait » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:14 am

Personally I find that not having a mobile phone at all eliminates these issues quite successfully. 8)
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:45 am

Nigel White wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:55 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:19 am
In which case parents and spectators need to be kept in a designated areas as much as possible or prevented from using electronic devices outside of that area (at Torquay spectators were warned about the use of phones). At Torquay I felt provisions for this were excellent; there were separate toilets for players and a fast lane for players to buy refreshments without entering the analysis area. This isn't the case in every venue but then again these venues were hardly built specifically for chess events and sometimes the logistics don't make this possible.

While, as Andrew says, at Torquay the provision of separated areas was excellent, the enforcement of it left a lot to be desired.

The area immediately outside the playing halls had notices requesting silence and no mobile phone use, both of which were continuously ignored. On one occasion, when playing close to the entrance, I complained to an arbiter about noise from this area - the solution was to temporarily shut the doors.

Also while there was a fast track refreshment lane, there was no attempt to ensure that players only used this lane rather than venture into the main canteen area. That said, one day I noticed someone was sitting on the floor using a laptop actually in the fast track lane.

Last year at Hull there were venue staff attempting to ensure silence in relevant areas, which I didn't see in Torquay.
I think it has already been noted up thread that the team of arbiters was relatively small this year and a few familiar faces from recent years were missing. Obviously you don't have to be a qualified arbiter to stand in the area outside the room shushing people but who is going to sign up to do a job like that unpaid (and deal with any resultant grief)?
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:17 am

Nigel White wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:55 am
The area immediately outside the playing halls had notices requesting silence and no mobile phone use, both of which were continuously ignored. On one occasion, when playing close to the entrance, I complained to an arbiter about noise from this area - the solution was to temporarily shut the doors.
This sounds remarkably like the London Chess Classic, except that there is no door to shut.
Nigel White wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:55 am
Also while there was a fast track refreshment lane, there was no attempt to ensure that players only used this lane rather than venture into the main canteen area. That said, one day I noticed someone was sitting on the floor using a laptop actually in the fast track lane.
Again at London, if you go to the refreshment area, the toilet area - or indeed anywhere - you have to wander past all and sundry on all sorts of electronic devices.

Having been to Torquay, it's not really clear to me how you would solve the problems you've observed without making all of the extra available space for people to wait unavailable for them to wait. So then you just need large amounts of extra space for that purpose, which costs money. With all Open events, I think good arbiters know how they should be handled with a perfect venue and infinite resources. If only we ever had either of those things.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:17 am
Again at London, if you go to the refreshment area, the toilet area - or indeed anywhere - you have to wander past all and sundry on all sorts of electronic devices.
The hall at Olympia has a set of toilets accessible directly from the playing area. A similar setup to this year at Torquay with in effect a dedicated players only area.

In the far corners of the playing room at the British, where the Senior events were taking place, the lighting was poor in comparison to the rest of the room. But that was the case on previous visits. The technical standards of presentation of the commentary escaped the criticisms of Warwick.

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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm
.

Regarding the incident in question what I don't understand is why anybody at a chess tournament would need their phone with them. I always leave mine at the accommodation
Because the accommodation can be some distance from the playing hall and it can also be a place you're not happy to leave valuables. Neither of these points strikes me as particularly obscure.
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Charlie Storey
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Charlie Storey » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:03 pm

I am still surprised that Lorin Dacosta has not apologised on this thread for attacking me rather than accepting responsibility for his actions for having a mobile phone in his bag that was taken from the playing area. I have been waiting for a public apology whilst his 'immature' friends have found it appropriate to come onto my own social media pages and attempt to mock or blame me for his breaking of the rules regarding mobile phones which was explained at the start of every round and players were scanned in every round with metal detectors. It seems some people think it appropriate to jump to defence when actually.
Based on this inability to issue a public apology I will post on here my real thoughts what I think happened if I do not see a public apology and this will be done to show how I deal with these immature friends who have tried to fight his indefensible corner.

If I do not see an apology I will call out these 'friends' who thought it appropriate to try and mock me and give a full and frank opinion as to what I think happened.

I will also hand over to Fide these players names for attempting to harass me for upholding Fides laws on mobile phone misuse.

That's how I deal with Cyber Cowards.

Just so you know what a Master is....its not a Kid with high chess rating it is someone that has developed his or her community through training, organising, supporting, marketing and promoting. A teenager with a high chess rating in my view is not a Master and if they think they can bully a Proper Master then they are in for a shock.

I hate cheaters and cyber cowards whatever your title or status.


Here is latest case of cheating from an Australian Online Newspaper


Just a few weeks after a photo of Grandmaster Igors Rausis analysing with a mobile phone inside a toilet cubicle went around the world, a new cheating scandal has blown up in the Netherlands.

Joris Boons, a 19-year-old amateur from Utrecht, had enjoyed a dream run over the past few months, winning rating restricted tournaments in Hilversum, Haarlem and Amsterdam with perfect or near-perfect scores.

Joris Boons' dream run came to an end after he was found with a mobile phone during a tournament. Picture: Supplied
Joris Boons' dream run came to an end after he was found with a mobile phone during a tournament. Picture: Supplied

Boons' convincing victories, from a player who had never shown exceptional talent previously, aroused suspicions, especially since he seemed to be visiting the toilet rather often.


So when Boons entered the third group of the recent Dutch Open in Dieren the organisers decided to be prepared. Unfortunately, their efforts to source a metal detector proved fruitless - until the penultimate round.

By then Boons had won every game bar one and seemed headed for a new tournament success. However in the eighth round the arbiters stopped Boons on his return from a toilet visit and asked to scan him. Boons refused.

He was taken to the arbiters' office and after having been told the consequences of refusing screening, admitted to having a phone. The phone was shown to contain chess apps, but Boons claimed that he had never used them during a game. He was nonetheless forfeited (for phone possession), expelled from the tournament, and all his opponents during the event were given back the point they had lost against him.

Boons' case has been referred to the world body FIDE, which is expected to implement a ban of two years. (The Rausis case, in which the cheating could have been taking place for as many as six years, may become FIDE's first life ban.)

In many ways Boons is a far more typical cheat than Rausis, a teenage, overconfident, but weak player who wants to prove that they are cleverer than everyone else. (Australia has seen two.)

However the Rausis case is far more worrying. If a strong player decides to get occasional help with a hidden phone for just a few key moments in a game, it will be very hard to identify.

Only when 58-year-old Rausis became greedy, reaching the top 50 after winning half a dozen tournaments in Italy and France over the European spring and summer, did suspicion rise to the point where vigilante players decided to secretly photograph him in a cubicle and present the evidence to the world.

The warning signs have been been clear since at least 2015 when Georgian Grandmaster Gaioz Nigalidze was banned after his mobile phone was found hidden behind a cistern at a tournament in Dubai.

Nigalidze was banned for three years but he had already won two Georgian Championships and a $15,000 first prize at an open event in Al Ain.

The moral seems to be that, despite isolated successes, current anti-cheating measures are inadequate and the integrity of the game is in serious danger.
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NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:41 pm

Charlie Storey wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:03 pm
I will post on here my real thoughts what I think happened
I'm sure I am not the only one who will find that of interest.

David Robertson
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by David Robertson » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:00 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:41 pm
I'm sure I am not the only one who will find that of interest
No. You're the only one :roll:

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JustinHorton
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:13 pm

Charlie Storey wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:03 pm

I will also hand over to Fide these players names for attempting to harass me for upholding Fides laws on mobile phone misuse.
Not the ol' Ethics Commission Gambit again, Charlie?
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shaunpress
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by shaunpress » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:22 am

(Note: This reply should probably belong in the Computer Cheating thread)

If the mention of "Australian IM's" is what I assume it is, then I was the chief arbiter at one such incident earlier this year. It was quite similar to what happened at the 2019 British Championship, in that involved a player who had not played for a number of years, didn't pay sufficient notice to the announcements at the start of each round, and was very contrite once the rules were explained to him (although he did withdraw from the event).
There was another issue involving an Australian resident IM (who is registered for another Federation) who was defaulted for a similar offence in New Zealand last year. Otherwise they're the only 2 cases that spring to mind.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:38 am

shaunpress wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:22 am

There was another issue involving an Australian resident IM (who is registered for another Federation) who was defaulted for a similar offence in New Zealand last year.

An eye witness account

https://doubleroo.blogspot.com/2019/01/ ... _hgfsgDvao

Li Wu
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Li Wu » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:59 am

I am someone that stopped playing chess seriously in 2007, then sporadically played from 2008 to 2012.

Recently I have rekindled my interest in the game- mostly because of Alphazero, and also because I moved to the Isle of Man and by sheer luck was able to play in the most prestigious tournament last year (also soon in a few months :P).

As someone who very much can parallel what has been written about some Australian IMs- I would certainly have been defaulted by accident- if not having played the IOM tournament where it was more seriously policed. Coming up from Junior chess, it was common if not normal for kids to leave their boards and discuss their positions (in full detail!) with their friends- pretty much never out of malice but just out of socialising habits. Of course you would grow out of it, but kids make more mistakes. I quit at around age 18-19 having just grown out of that.

vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T8zycg2mI4&t=180

This is a video from 2009- using ipods at the board was extremely common. The late Jessie Gilbert for example, always had one (obviously few years prior to 2009).

Breaking of the rules by carrying a bag is not apples to apples with full on caught cheating. It's extremely unlikely that Lorin was cheating or even had the intention to cheat. In my view this is how one should behave- give people the benefit of the doubt, within rights of enforcing the rules.

I would have easily defaulted in the same fashion as Lorin had this been the first tournament I played instead of the IOM one- no doubt raising even more suspicion if I were doing well (due to long absence etc) and if was told to resign at the board most likely would quit chess again.

All that remains to resolve is the actual confrontation between the two. Perhaps there is some misunderstanding/in the heat of the moment exchanges, but if you get so wound up over someone carrying their bag out of the playing hall- then chess is not fun any more (as Charlie stated he was- emotionally affected by the feeling that Lorin could be up to something).

Anyway for this part Lorin has said his piece. In particular I find the- harsh stare+asking him to resign at the board a bit odd to say the least. If nothing of the sort happened, then Lorin's post is ofc an unjustified attack on Charlie, but I have only seen deflection after deflection from Charlie's replies so far (what has the cheating 1800 Dutch guy, or the unsubstantiated claims against some Aussie IMs have to do with Lorin's situation?). If you play chess with the feeling that anyone is out to cheat, unless rules are fully enforced, then what's the point?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:18 am

Li Wu wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:59 am
. In particular I find the- harsh stare+asking him to resign at the board a bit odd to say the least
Asking for a resignation could have been uncertainty as to how the rules for Norms applied. As it happens a win by mobile phone default does still count and for rating as well, but a rare occurrence. Ketevan's win against Nigel in the Liverpool 2008 event counted or would have counted for a Norm. (For those unfamiliar, Nigel placed his phone on the table and seemingly switched it off. Unknown to him, he had only put it to standby, so it continued to consume power. Partway through the game, it decided to alert him to its lack of power.)

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:37 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:18 am
Ketevan's win against Nigel in the Liverpool 2008 event counted or would have counted for a Norm.
Roger, you have mentioned this before and it may well be true, but how do you know that?

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