Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:52 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:08 pm
Sounds like he was ahead of his time - way back in 2006! Wins over Smirin and Bartholomew too
But 7 years after Clemens Allwermann had an outstandingly good tournament.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:27 am

While we are on the subject of cheating, did anyone else ever think topalov cheated when he won the world championship in that tournament years ago, his wins all looked like they came straight out of an engine, and to top it off he then took the initiative and accused kramnik of cheating in their next championship match....methinks he doth protest too much
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:41 am

The recent systematic Russian doping program which led to a world wide ban on Russian athletes makes for interesting reading. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia

There’s also an well made documentary on the subject called Icarus (Netflix). It was pretty eye opening ‘James Bond’ type stuff they got up to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus_(2017_film)

I wonder if the Russian state gave any thought to a chess cheating program, but perhaps gave up on the idea as more trouble than it was worth?

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Paul Robert Jackson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Robert Jackson » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:36 am

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:41 am
I wonder if the Russian state gave any thought to a chess cheating program, but perhaps gave up on the idea as more trouble than it was worth?
Perhaps you should read "The KGB Plays Chess".
Paul Robert Jackson

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:52 am

Perhaps he shouldn't: its reputation for sourcing its claims is not the best.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:06 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:27 am
While we are on the subject of cheating, did anyone else ever think topalov cheated when he won the world championship in that tournament years ago, his wins all looked like they came straight out of an engine, and to top it off he then took the initiative and accused kramnik of cheating in their next championship match....methinks he doth protest too much
Yes, some people suspected this.

No, there has never been any credible evidence put forward.

Given that, I think Topa is entitled to the benefit of the doubt (even though, yes, his/Danailov's behaviour the following year was unethical)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pm

One theory relating to Topalov's accusations against Kramnik was that he was getting revenge after being accused previously.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:27 am
While we are on the subject of cheating, did anyone else ever think topalov cheated when he won the world championship in that tournament years ago, his wins all looked like they came straight out of an engine, and to top it off he then took the initiative and accused kramnik of cheating in their next championship match....methinks he doth protest too much
If you search "Intrinsic Ratings Compendium Ken Regan" you can see Ken's analysis on page 12. On the face of it, it doesn't suggest anything suspicious.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:23 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 pm
Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:27 am
While we are on the subject of cheating, did anyone else ever think topalov cheated when he won the world championship in that tournament years ago, his wins all looked like they came straight out of an engine, and to top it off he then took the initiative and accused kramnik of cheating in their next championship match....methinks he doth protest too much
If you search "Intrinsic Ratings Compendium Ken Regan" you can see Ken's analysis on page 12. On the face of it, it doesn't suggest anything suspicious.
That search brings up 258000 matches but I think the relevant link would be https://cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/papers/pdf/Reg12IPRs.pdf

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:03 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 pm
On the face of it, it doesn't suggest anything suspicious.
I thought the suggestion had been that in some way his second may have been able to signal assessments. Whilst receiving the news that "engine says you are worse/better" is probably useful and something that current arrangements would seek to prevent, it's not going to lead to anything detectable by an engine matching process.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:59 pm

In 1986 Karpov expressed concerns before the match that Kasparov's seconds could see him. He was not accusing Gary of cheating. Simply that he might gain sustenance from the way they looked.
So It was agreed the seconds would always sit in the same place and the two players would change positions when white or black. Of course it is easier to make eye contact when sitting diagonally opposite.
There were no further comments about that.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:35 pm

It must have been hard to be a second and kept a completely stoic expression the whole time, I'm sure everyone at some point or other has nodded approval at a good move by a team mate and in a way it could be seen as helping validate the plan they just engaged even if not intended as such
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:41 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 pm

If you search "Intrinsic Ratings Compendium Ken Regan" you can see Ken's analysis on page 12. On the face of it, it doesn't suggest anything suspicious.

I don't think it was ever going to be detectable based on looking for a high match rate. Engine or not, Topalov is a still a very good player who obviously wouldn't need assistance for an entire game - an advantage garnered in a critical position would have been more then enough for him to convert with his own wits
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:06 pm

You're basically accusing him of cheating based on nothing, aren't you?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

David Robertson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Robertson » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:41 pm

Doing PIPI in your pampers

Tigran L Petrosian responds to Wesley So allegations tonight BREAKING...

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