Matthew, I realise you might not wish to answer this on the forum but I wondered from some of what you have written whether as a GM you have access to more information about the cheating detection processes on Lichess or chess.com than the typical member?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:52 pmJustin,
I know there are certain number of bans overturned and this would appear to be an example where a player could relatively easily argue their case. A human would look at the appeal and I imagine the opening theory aspect would be easily verifiable, so I would have thought an appeal could well be successful.
Cheating in chess
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Re: Cheating in chess
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Re: Precise Criteria for Cheating Decision Making : 8 move cut-off
There's also the question of transpositionsRoger de Coverly wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:49 pmTo do it properly, you would have an enormous collection of games, continually updated and use it to build a tree of positions that had been seen before. Even more rigorous would be to add in published analysis from sources like New in Chess Yearbooks and Informator even if it yet to be played in practice.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Re: Cheating in chess
Justin
Well, I know roughly how many bans are overturned each month by Lichess. I know that a player could demonstrate that their moves were theory and link them to their correspondence chess experience. I know that each appeal to Lichess is looked at by a human. I know that a human could easily verify that moves were theory.
Is that better?
Well, I know roughly how many bans are overturned each month by Lichess. I know that a player could demonstrate that their moves were theory and link them to their correspondence chess experience. I know that each appeal to Lichess is looked at by a human. I know that a human could easily verify that moves were theory.
Is that better?
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Re: Cheating in chess
While this is a fair question to ask, it's also fair to say that it's not much help either way it's answered. You can't judge what is supposed to be a scientific process on the basis of "X says it's fine, but can't say why".Eric Gardiner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pmMatthew, I realise you might not wish to answer this on the forum but I wondered from some of what you have written whether as a GM you have access to more information about the cheating detection processes on Lichess or chess.com than the typical member?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:52 pmJustin,
I know there are certain number of bans overturned and this would appear to be an example where a player could relatively easily argue their case. A human would look at the appeal and I imagine the opening theory aspect would be easily verifiable, so I would have thought an appeal could well be successful.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
On what level of "know" is thisMatthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pmI know that each appeal to Lichess is looked at by a human
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Re: Cheating in chess
I am worried we are are heading to "I think, therefore I am"
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Re: Cheating in chess
Well that at least has a great deal more solid foundation than a lot of other claims I've read on this thread
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Re: Cheating in chess
Eric,Eric Gardiner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pmMatthew, I realise you might not wish to answer this on the forum but I wondered from some of what you have written whether as a GM you have access to more information about the cheating detection processes on Lichess or chess.com than the typical member?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:52 pmJustin,
I know there are certain number of bans overturned and this would appear to be an example where a player could relatively easily argue their case. A human would look at the appeal and I imagine the opening theory aspect would be easily verifiable, so I would have thought an appeal could well be successful.
I have taken an interest in the fair play procedures and been in on the conference calls with Dr. Regan and the 4NCL Team Captains. I believe all the information contained within those calls is effectively within the public domain and I don't believe there is anything that I have written above which could not have been gleaned by any of the Team Captains.
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Re: Cheating in chess
The 4NCL Team Captains were told this by a Lichess board member. I don't really see any reason to doubt his word - after all he could have said nothing.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:04 pmOn what level of "know" is thisMatthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pmI know that each appeal to Lichess is looked at by a human
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Re: Cheating in chess
So we're talking about 4NCL games, as opposed to lichess games per se?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
No, it is just Lichess policy, nothing to do with the 4NCL.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:18 pmSo we're talking about 4NCL games, as opposed to lichess games per se?
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Re: Precise Criteria for Cheating Decision Making : 8 move cut-off
That can be handled by storing positions rather than move sequences.
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Re: Precise Criteria for Cheating Decision Making : 8 move cut-off
Yes of course, provided that's actually what happens.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:24 pmThat can be handled by storing positions rather than move sequences.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Precise Criteria for Cheating Decision Making : 8 move cut-off
It occurs to me that some of these host servers have been running quite some time and may therefore have core programming that's really quite old. So much so that they may have embedded engines which needed an opening book to prevent them going totally off the wall in the first few moves of a game. The engine opening books probably weren't that deep and similarly the unspecified investigations are based on similar cutoffs.
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Re: Cheating in chess
No, that's fair enough, I absolutely would not accept the same assurance from anybody at chess.com though.Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
The 4NCL Team Captains were told this by a Lichess board member. I don't really see any reason to doubt his word
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com