Rules about drinking alcohol before or during matches

[Alistair Campbell]

OK – now that TSOM is in the endgame, and going back to the original post, I see no need to change anything.

Firstly, I’m not aware of any increased incidence of drunkenness in chess, and certainly not any that cannot be dealt with by the use of existing laws and rules.

I’m even less convinced by any argument to ban drinking beforehand. Other than the practicalities of policing it, playing chess is not like operating heavy machinery or driving a car – any loss of judgement is unlikely to affect anyone other than the player him/herself.

Many clubs will meet in public houses out of financial necessity. This may encourage more people to play. On the other hand, if this option were unavailable, more clubs will fold. Also, examples of responsible drinking could be a positive thing - but that's a whole other issue.

[matt_ward]

Yes very interesting point! It's always good to see it from that prospective! I think my argument against alcohol is lost, I think I am the only chess player against it so I guess that's it!

Matt.

[Phil Makepeace]

Right, this is an extraordinary thread, not least because of the speed of the debate. It's taken me an entire episode of Pointless - aptly enough - to digest it all.

Firstly, to comment on the Brian Smith issue, I'm of the opinion that has already been expressed that, on the whole, the strength of the Wood Green sides in the London League is beneficial. It encourages other teams to bring in very strong players on the one-off and adds a small degree of professionalism to the league. Paying amateurs, on the other hand, is not a practice I endorse. While Wood Green have won for yet another season, the fixture with Drunken Knights 1 in December was special, given that this was DK1's weakest team of the season. I took great pleasure in playing a GM on Board 9 (!) - only the second occasion I've faced one - and even more in snatching a draw. The professionals still have to get it done against the opposition they face.

Drinking a pint at the board during league matches and occasionally at the 4NCL is a practice I have grown into in recent seasons. I do this because after a long day or a tiring journey, I quite fancy a refreshing beverage. This does not mean I am attempting to intimidate my opponent; indeed, where possible, I situate my pint away from the board so that I can have a sip after I've moved. My personal hygeine is excellent so I don't believe that one pint of beer is going to affect my breath too adversely.

Matt, a couple of years ago, when I was 18, I gave up alcohol for a few months. During this period, I didn't particularly miss alcohol per se, but there is an intrinsic social element of having a pint with your mates that was no longer present. Abstinence is a personal choice, and one that's fine with me, but I don't believe that your crusade to ban alcohol from the amateur chess arena is a sensible or viable one. It is undeniably true that the game of chess does not require alcohol but the way that the game has developed at an amateur level means that it relies on pub venues to exist.

[matt_ward]

Hey Phil, yeah fair enough your probably right! I will no doubt go back to alcohol as it seems to be a missing element in my socialising life, plus most people at 18 I know do drink to some degree. In addition to this how did you find it when you gave up did it help you psychologically I think I see some changes in my behaviour but from a character point of view I am not convinced.

By the way Phil, how did you get on at the last 4ncl you win or? And regarding your view on banning it in ameteur league's your probably right there mate, I think if that did happen chess would become to serious.

Matt.

[Alex Holowczak]

I don't drink alcohol, and I can't say that I have any particular desire to go anywhere near it. Indeed, if it were banned from amateur chess, I wouldn't care less. I agree with Phil that banning alcohol in league chess won't happen any time soon. The only way it would be banned is if it's made illegal in law. That won't happen in the next 20-30 years.

The thing that bothers me more is when tournaments offer a bottle of wine as a prize. Not particularly useful if a child wins the prize, or someone who doesn't drink. Particularly if devout Muslim, for example, wins the prize.

[matt_ward]

well yes alex, I can't understand that either very strange to say the least. Why would you give a bottle of wine to a winner of tournament if it's a child. Also I haven't played in any that do give that as a prize.

Matt.

[Alex Holowczak]

The tournament offered it as a prize beforehand; I presume that if a child won, provisions would have been made.

[matt_ward]

It's easy for chess to become an obsession in life! it's a thing to avoid from my experience.

matt.

[Phil Makepeace]

It's easy for chess to become an obsession in life! it's a thing to avoid from my experience.

37 posts within 7 hours on a forum devoted exclusively to chess is some experience.

[matt_ward]

Yeah I know, it also shows that I am quiet sad your no doubt thinking!

Matt.

[Stewart Reuben]

My concern about drinking alcohol in the playing area is simply because this sets a bad example to children. If there are no children playing I have no problem. Where there are, particularly the British Championships when in charge, I have requested players not to drink alcohol in the playing area and they have always then refrained from doing so after I explained the reason.
I discussed the whole matter with Geurt Gijssen, chairman of the Rules Commission, a couple of years ago. He saw nothing wrong with imbibing at the board.

The Evening Standard London Chess congress used to have a large number of alcohol prizes. For example, a glass of whisky a day for a year for the best scoring Senior. that's 12 bottles. There were a number of wine spot prizes and you had a very good chance of getting one if you stayed for the prizegiving. A 50% score was often sufficient. Juniors were not allowed them, unless accompanied by an adult. They could win prizes from Hamleys, for which adults were not eligible.
25 years ago it never occurred to me that there would be an issue with people who did not drink alcohol because of their religion. They would have got a calculator or perfume or a chess book instead.

Stewart Reuben

[Roger de Coverly]

Roger there has been incidents, as I have no doubt your aware, in surrey border league people being drunk or "Pissed" at the board, .

I don't play in the Border League, so I am aware of nothing. The Border venues I know, because they are Berks clubs as well are all not in licensed premises, so drinking at the board would not be possible using drinks purchased at the venue.

If there's a problem with the behaviour of one of the teams in the league, then an AGM motion to the effect that the League should decline their entry would be a way of highlighting the issue.

I would have thought though that a pub-based club such as the Drunken Knights would have more appeal to those in the 18-30 age range than the typical church hall and thus be key to retaining and attracting younger adult players.

[matt_ward]

Yes Roger, Your right! about it encouraging people between, 18-30, However there have been sereral complaints, weather these will be taken up at the AGM well I wouldn't know but I will definitely be forwarding my opinion regarding this issue. Just because Drunken Knights play in the S.B.L, they should respect this because they were accepted in just because they play in a pub for there chess, shouldn't mean they are obliged to drink which seems to be the case, as they have been absolutely "pissed" at the board before there game, this shouldn't be tolerated.

Matt.

[Paul McKeown]

Matthew,

God, who became man, and whose victory over death we celebrate these weekend, employed wine, both to mark the occasion of marriage with meet festivity ("The Wedding Feast of Cana") and in his remembrance ("The Last Supper"), a sacrament partaken by many over the intervening 2000 years.

I object that you would interfere in such an unwarranted manner with solemn religious duty.

Regards,
Paul McKeown

[Ben Purton]

I cannot really understand the criticism of drunken Knights club here.

They are an established team in the London league and 3 of our 5 players play for them in the London League

Of the other 2 , One is a t-total player who plays for Paul's team in London League

The other only plays for DK and Richmond with me in Eastman cup.

None of these players are heavily abusive, smell. In fact we are one of the most friendly clubs in the league.

Its interesting Matthew, that numerous members of your club , Sandhurst, visit our venue when not even playing to enjoy the atmosphere which you can't stand.

Ben