Titled Englishmen who left chess

[John Upham]

If the discussion is limited to English male GMs then the most obvious candidates would be Michael Stean and James Howell.

Arguably you could nominate Stewart Haslinger and David Norwood also.

Do you mean by "left chess" as having nothing active to do with chess in any shape or form or merely being an active player?

[MJMcCready]

I find this whole thread a bit prurient and distasteful (and in some cases uninformed). People have their reasons for the decisions they take in life. I doubt most who have given up or have largely withdrawn from the game (or at least active play) particularly regret their decision (other than maybe some might wish family or financial reality - the two most common enforced reasons I would think - had allowed different hence many returning in later life).

And best just left at that IMHO.

Yes, I agree with you there. Whatever their reasons were, I'm sure they were well-justified at the time as it can't be easy to leave something so central to your life. The point of our conversation was to establish that some players did personally benefit greatly from leaving chess behind whereas as some -Fischer being the classic example -perhaps didn't. Whether he came to regret that later on I really don't know, perhaps someone could shed light on that?

[Nick Ivell]

Bobby was already playing less after Curacao, and he wasn't even 20!

My theory about Fischer is that although he loved chess, he increasingly didn't like playing.

If so I can sympathise with this, as my chess career has followed a similar trajectory, albeit less stellar.

[John Upham]

Bobby was already playing less after Curacao, and he wasn't even 20!

My theory about Fischer is that although he loved chess, he increasingly didn't like playing.

If so I can sympathise with this, as my chess career has followed a similar trajectory, albeit less stellar.

Are you planning to visit Pasadena Nick?

[Matt Mackenzie]

Searching for England players on the fide rating website will bring up a list which includes inactive ones eg Julian Hodgson (coaching and the London Chess Classic commentary), William Watson, Jonathan Mestel, Dharshan Kumaran (a doctor), Michael Stean, Ray Keene etc

Mestel was playing until pretty recently. By contrast Stean had his last serious classical games c1983 and Keene a few years later.

Hodgson giving up the game relatively early is one that always surprised me.

[MJMcCready]

Bobby was already playing less after Curacao, and he wasn't even 20!

My theory about Fischer is that although he loved chess, he increasingly didn't like playing.

If so I can sympathise with this, as my chess career has followed a similar trajectory, albeit less stellar.

Yes I know what you mean. The list of demands he came up with for the Karpov match strongly suggest he'd had enough of playing or thereabouts.

[Nick Ivell]

Perhaps some fear of young Anatoly too?

He was already stronger than Spassky, and had more positional understanding than Fischer ever had (which is not to say he would have won the match).

[Matt Mackenzie]

Bobby was already playing less after Curacao, and he wasn't even 20!

My theory about Fischer is that although he loved chess, he increasingly didn't like playing.

If so I can sympathise with this, as my chess career has followed a similar trajectory, albeit less stellar.

Yes I know what you mean. The list of demands he came up with for the Karpov match strongly suggest he'd had enough of playing or thereabouts.

I think that is likely at the time, yes.

The more interesting question, as alluded to above, is if he ever regretted that later.

[MJMcCready]

Yeah, it's hard to know. Based on his return to the fold in 93, or whenever it was, I don't think so. He didn't seem overjoyed at being back.

[Nick Ivell]

Bobby in 92 was very patchy. On occasion as good as he ever was; but in some games, unrecognisable.

It's not a match I take seriously, but I enjoy playing through the games.

[Joey Stewart]

Actually, you know there is somebody quite famous we have all forgotten - ray Keene (ok so he is still involved with the game but I don't think he has actually picked up a piece in 20+ years)

[David Sedgwick]

I find this whole thread a bit prurient and distasteful (and in some cases uninformed). People have their reasons for the decisions they take in life. I doubt most who have given up or have largely withdrawn from the game (or at least active play) particularly regret their decision (other than maybe some might wish family or financial reality - the two most common enforced reasons I would think - had allowed different hence many returning in later life).

And best just left at that IMHO.

I was going to comment about James Howell, but on reflection I agree with Richard, so I won't.

I will just mention that Jonathan Mestel and Peter Lee are both top class bridge players, as is Paul Lamford of Wales.

[Paul Habershon]

Actually, you know there is somebody quite famous we have all forgotten - ray Keene (ok so he is still involved with the game but I don't think he has actually picked up a piece in 20+ years)

All these titled 'quitters' can get their fix by playing anonymously online (yes, I know David Norwood goes public). I would find it surprising if they don't. This would make the apparent squandering of talent and enjoyment more explicable.

[JustinHorton]

Well, it is one thing to stop playing for any one of a number of career or personal reasons, but how can you get to GM level and then lose interest utterly and forever ?

Isn't the key here the "GM level" thing? If you play a sport at a high level and then cease to be professional, your level will fall off quite a long way. Imagine, say, a promising young tennis player who isn't quite good enough to maintain themselves at a high level - they play on the circuit for a couple of years, once or twice play one of the really top players, maybe get close to qualifying for a Grand Slam or two, but after a while it becomes clear they're probably not going to make it and eventually they find a job outside the sport. Is such a person really going to be interested in going out to the municipal courts or even a private club in order to play opponents who once wouldn't even have been on their radar and to miss shots which would once have been their bread and butter? Maybe some will and maybe some won't, but you can see the point, can't you?

This would make the apparent squandering of talent

How many early retirees (if you will) have actually done that, though, if you ask what they have not achieved which they might have achieved if they were to have carried on?

I also think Nick Ivell's point about liking chess but not actually liking playing may be pertinent. I am sure a lot of ex-propfessional players would point to how time-consuiming it is to play at that level as well, perhaps, as the general grind and tedium and inconvenience of the proferssional circuit. (This wouldn't apply only to chess of course. I may have mentioned it on here before but something that sticks in my mind is having gone to Queen's Club in about 2004 when I was working near there to watch a day's tennis and it having been quite evident to me that some of the lower-ranked players - lower-ranked, but still of course highly-skilled professionals - who I saw were plainly not very enthusiastic about being there.)

[Matt Mackenzie]

Actually, you know there is somebody quite famous we have all forgotten - ray Keene (ok so he is still involved with the game but I don't think he has actually picked up a piece in 20+ years)

Mentioned in the thread previously, and I think he was still doing simuls and the like until fairly recently.