ECF Bans Russians

[JustinHorton]

I'm pretty sure the interested parties will already have this in their "might come in handy" file for later.

What a bizarre comment. It's nothing to do with ""the interested parties".

As far as players refusing to play against RUS or BLR players and arbiters assisting this by altering pairings, isn't that the practice ruled out by FIDE in the context of Iranian and Israeli players?

Yes, it's almost as if before we ban things, we should think about whether what we do may apply in other, less convenient situations in the future

[Chris Goodall]

I'm pretty sure the interested parties will already have this in their "might come in handy" file for later.

What a bizarre comment. It's nothing to do with ""the interested parties".

It's an attention economy. If a scandal isn't big enough to take your opponent down by itself, you sit on it. You put it in the file, and ban your people from talking about it. Because once it's out there and it's "old news", people don't like to admit later that they ought to have paid more attention to it. "Russian money" is definitely out there and old news, which is how you know about it.

[NickFaulks]

Yes, it's almost as if before we ban things, we should think about whether what we do may apply in other, less convenient situations in the future

This is my concern about FIDE Charter 4.4 and its ilk. I am all for principled positions, but not if you're going to say they don't apply when something unforeseen happens.

[LawrenceCooper]

"The 4NCL will, in line with ECF and ECU policy, not allow players with a RUS or BLR country identification to participate after 14 March, 2022. Such players can change their affiliation to FID free of charge by contacting FIDE. Currently that change will be effective until 31 May and might apply after then too if necessary.

Captains and affected players are advised to monitor the situation with regard to future participation."

[Paul McKeown]

I am fairly sure that some of the voices here most loudly opposed to the ban would have been enraged when Zola Budd was helped by a rightwing British sh*terag to dodge the sporting sanctions imposed on South Africa. South Africa had then a thoroughly reprehensible government, and many South Africans will tell you that it wasn't the economic sanctions that destroyed Apartheid but the cultural and sporting sanctions which hurt the pride terribly of a nation with a strong sporting tradition.

(I have sometimes heard that Apartheid was a unique evil, which is why they were sanctioned and not other countries. In practise, though, there have been and are a number of governments which practise ruthless racial, ethnic, linguistic, religious or cultural discrimination not only in practice but also in law.)

One thing that could be said in favour of the then horrendous Apartheid government was that it at least did not issue five separate threats of turning the world into a nuclear wasteland within the space of a week.

I don't understand the double standard of those aforesaid posters - although again it would be probably be a pointless endeavour to attempt to.

Those that say sport and politics should never mix, well, at least there isn't a double standard involved, rather a naive belief. Sport has long been a propaganda weapon close to the heart of the world's worst fascists and tyrants of other stripe. It certainly is in the case of the present Russian regime.

My heart does go out to the Russians who are entirely innocent of this. Indeed what I miss in the current national dialogue is any recognition that many Russians are chosing to leave their country - dissidents who seek asylum as they are no longer welcome or safe in the country that gave them birth. Not only is the present UK government's asylum policy a niggardly disgrace in terms of those displaced from their home in Ukraine but even worse in not even recognising that many Russians may also have need of help.

I don't believe that exempting minors is of much help to them. Children can be very cruel, and I sadly suspect that many young Russians at school in the UK will face bullying for something that is entirely out of their control. Retaining their FIDE nationality is likely to be low down on their list of priorities, way down after doing their homework, getting a good score on their favourite video game, studying the Sicilian and avoiding the git who keeps calling them a "Ruskie" and laughing.

On a practical level, please, which is where this forum is often at its best, what is the process for changing FIDE nationality? Whom does one contact? I ask on behalf of some that are affected.

[Ian Thompson]

On a practical level, please, which is where this forum is often at its best, what is the process for changing FIDE nationality? Whom does one contact? I ask on behalf of some that are affected.

See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12564&start=15#p279796 which links to https://www.fide.com/news/1618.

[NickFaulks]

On a practical level, please, which is where this forum is often at its best, what is the process for changing FIDE nationality? Whom does one contact? I ask on behalf of some that are affected.

Ignoring what was written above, some of which I think is wrong, I am happy to answer this substantive point.

If a player wishes to transfer to another federation, in this case presumably ENG, the method is unchanged. See

https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B042020

Essentially it is

3.1. All transfers shall be the responsibility of the new Federation and must be submitted to the FIDE Secretariat on the prescribed form in Annex A “Notification of change of Federation” together with the supporting documentary evidence of date and place of birth, citizenship and residence. A Notification Fee of € 50 is payable for all transfers.

You could have to wait up to three months for RUS ( if that is who it is ) to give their approval, but I think they will find themselves leaned upon to speed that up.

If the transfer is to FID, special arrangements are now available.

https://www.fide.com/news/1618

[Paul McKeown]

Thank you, Ian Thompson and Nick Faulks.
Who is the relevant party within the ECF who sends in the Notification of change of Federation?
I have contacted Malcolm Pein and Dave Clayton, as they obviously have contact with FIDE as part of their roles in the ECF, but the answer may well be someone less obvious at first instance.

[Paul McKeown]

How might one get a list of players with Russian or Belarussian affiliation from the ECF Rating Database who might be affected by this ordinance?

John Upham mentioned that he had found 20 registered as Belarussian.

Naviely, I queried the ECF Rating Database for players with club, "FRUS" but did not get the list I expected. I assume that is because "FRUS" applies to those who played in the UK before they joined a club in the UK.

[NickFaulks]

All roads lead to Dave Clayton.

[ThomasEvans]

https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/new/lis ... nation=BLR

https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/new/lis ... nation=RUS

Although there is only 1 Belarusian, and 20 Russians on those lists (looking only at players with any active ECF rating).

[Paul McKeown]

Thanks once more, Nick Faulks.

And thanks Thomas Evans - that gives a much better answer than my useless attempt.

However, due to the Covid-19 interruption the assumption that "inactive" players won't be interested in changing federation is likely to be somewhat wrong. Including inactive players, BLR has 12 players potentially affected, and RUS 190. Obviously, many of the "inactive" are inactive because they are non-resident and have simply played in a tournament in England. So closer to 1 and 20, and much less than 12 and 190.

[Joseph Conlon]

https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/new/lis ... nation=BLR

https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/new/lis ... nation=RUS

Although there is only 1 Belarusian, and 20 Russians on those lists (looking only at players with any active ECF rating).

That list isn't complete - there are players on the FIDE database with RUS but not listed as such on the ECF list (not linking as I do not want to link to individuals)

[Chris Goodall]

I am fairly sure that some of the voices here most loudly opposed to the ban would have been enraged when Zola Budd was helped by a rightwing British sh*terag to dodge the sporting sanctions imposed on South Africa.

[...]

I don't understand the double standard of those aforesaid posters - although again it would be probably be a pointless endeavour to attempt to.

Those that say sport and politics should never mix, well, at least there isn't a double standard involved, rather a naive belief.

So what you've done there is invent a double standard, attribute it to various of us, and then sneer at us for holding this hypothetical double standard.

You've also managed to write the longest post on the thread so far while stripping out most of the nuances that other posters expressed in a couple of sentences, and then bemoan the absence of that nuance.

You have an unhealthy relationship with the internet.

[John Upham]

You have an unhealthy relationship with the internet.

and yourself? Interesting.

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